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12 Replies | Page 1 of 11 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page

Where would you place your transducer?

by , Posted to on 05/09/2008 8:40 PM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2004
Location: ND
Have any of you tryed placeing the transducer on the inside of your boat and epoxying the transducer to the inside of hull and should ing the beam through the hull? I just bought a new fish finder and they say you can do this. I know I am not a frequent poster but am a frequent reader on this sight. Just looking for info if anybody has ever done this and how well does it work? I am tired of breaking off transducers off the back of the boat bumping tree stumps.
Bryan Renner
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/09/2008 8:50 PM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2002
Location: ND
Every depthfinder I have ever owned showed the technique you mentioned, but I have never seen a recommended brand of epoxy. Nor have I tried it.

Might I suggest solidly mounting a piece of 4x6 inch by 3/4 inch thick piece of XXXX plastic that will stay on the boat if you knock off a transducer. I have seen a few boats with this over the years and have always liked it because by the time the boat is 20 yrs old it may have had 2-5 transducers on it. All with different screw holes. With a mounting plate firmly attached to the hull, you don't have to worry about putting in so many different holes. Just replace the plastic mounting plate every couple transducers.
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/09/2008 8:51 PM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2002
Location: ND
Of course, the above won't stop you from knocking off the transducers. For that I suggest stop playing bumper boats with tree stumps.

Must fish DL a lot?
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/09/2008 8:54 PM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2004
Location: ND
slip bobbering the trees, keeps the 4 year old son catching fish this way I can stay on the water longer
Bryan Renner
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/09/2008 10:17 PM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/17/2003
Location: ND
rendog,
It works great to do what you are suggesting. Make sure you install it in an area where there won't be any turbulence. Any boat dealer should be able to provide you with information and the right glue to use.
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 07:04 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/16/2006
Location: ND
go to the vexilar web site , they sell the aluma ducer and also one for fiberglass hulls also the kit for the epoxy and any thing else that is needed.
Randy Nelson
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 11:27 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: MN
The Vexilar Alumaducer system (universal mount is the most flexible package, will adapt to most every sonar option out) is a very good choice.

I switched from a transom mount to the shoot through the hull Vex system and love it. Very good clean readings at any speed. No worries about busting the duscer up loading on the trailer or in the water.

As was suggested, check the Vexilar web site and see if the system is a good match for your needs.

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson ~ ~ ><,sUMo,> ~ ><CD
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 11:48 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/18/2001
Location: ND
Some tips from Lowrance...

Ideal spot is 2 inches up from the drain hole and 2 inches off set from the keel of the boat
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 1:24 PM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/31/2006
Location: ND
Great tips from Lowrance.

Is there a good way to remove an epoxyied transducer and reinstall it? Or should I just follow all of your tips and install a new transducer? After storing my new boat over the winter, my transducer, which is epoxied into the hull, only works when I pour water over it. I assume there is an air bubble causing this problem.
Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 2:53 PM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/16/2004
Location: ND
Go with the epoxied transducer, however I wouldnt use the puck style transducer recommended, use the standard skimmer. My understanding is the puck has a slower ping rate at full speed ping; I had nothing but problems with losing signal over 8 MpH, changed to the skimmer and no more problems with the ducer in the exact same spot.

As far as re-epoxying the ducre, just pull it out, clea it up REALLY well, try to get as much epoxy off as you can and reinstall the way Mr Carroll mentioned, trying to get 0 air between the ducer and the hull.

For a quick weekend fix you can use 100% clear silicone for a temp fix, a bit on the hull in the ducer location, and firmly set the ducer in followed by a large gob on top of the ducer to hold it firmly in place.

YES, I am that foolish!

Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 2:54 PM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/16/2004
Location: ND
Go with the epoxied transducer, however I wouldnt use the puck style transducer recommended, use the standard skimmer. My understanding is the puck has a slower ping rate at full speed ping; I had nothing but problems with losing signal over 8 MpH, changed to the skimmer and no more problems with the ducer in the exact same spot.

As far as re-epoxying the ducre, just pull it out, clea it up REALLY well, try to get as much epoxy off as you can and reinstall the way Mr Carroll mentioned, trying to get 0 air between the ducer and the hull.

For a quick weekend fix you can use 100% clear silicone for a temp fix, a bit on the hull in the ducer location, and firmly set the ducer in followed by a large gob on top of the ducer to hold it firmly in place.

YES, I am that foolish!

Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 3:21 PM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND

Vexilar offers great sonar products and great advice or suggestions for the wants you have.  I have an Edge 3 and mounted my transducers on my transom so I can't help much more than posting the following material.  Hope it helps (not the installation video).

AlumaDucer FAQ's


The AlumaDucer was designed to be simple to install and easy to use. Our goal is to have you put it in and forget about it! This said there are exceptions to every rule and your boat might be one of them. The following are a few of the most commonly asked questions about the AlumaDucer that might help you.


QUESTION: Can I watch a video to show me how to install the AlumaDucer?


ANSWER: Yes, we have an installation how to video here.


QUESTION: My hull is a double-layer construction. Will the AlumaDucer still work.


ANSWER: Unfortunately, No. The problem is the air gap between the two layers. This will stop any sonar signal dead. In order to make it work, you'll need to cut through the top layer and attach the AlumaDucer to the outer layer only.


QUESTION: I can't get high speed performance out of my AlumaDucer, the display loses bottom at about 30 miles per hour.


ANSWER: The AlumaDucer will help many boaters get better high speed performance then ever before using externally mounted transducers. The key is understanding the dynamics of how water flows under your hull at different speeds. Fiberglass boats often have a flat spot or pad on the very rear of the boat. This flat area is ideal for transducers to get a good clear reading at high speeds. With Aluminum hulls, this area may not be as obvious. Welded, flat bottom Jon boats are often easy to find an area where smooth water without bubbles are flowing down the hull of the boat. Boats with rivets along their bottom side do create more turbulence, so finding an area of smooth water without air pockets can be for of a challenge, but it is possible in most cases.


We recommend you fill the rear area of your boat with an inch of water before you permanently epoxy the transducer into position. It is best to use a small bag of sand (we use a zip lock bag with beach sand in it) or anything else you can use to place the transducer firmly to the hull and keep it under the thin layer of water you have in your boat. Now get your boat on plane and see if your bottom readings are strong, if not, try a different position until the transducer finds a good area of water flow under your hull with minimal amount of bubbles.


Once this sweet spot has been found, you simply drain your boat, dry out the area you wish to attach the epoxy, and follow the package instructions. We have used a hair drier to speed the process, with no bad effects.


QUESTION: I installed the AlumaDucer this morning and it worked just fine, but on the second day, I turned on my unit and never got a depth reading, is my AlumaDucer broke?


ANSWER: The AlumaDucer is designed to give you years of trouble free performance. The problems is one of not following the instructions. The special blend of A.C.E. Epoxy that Vexilar uses for the AlumaDucer sets in about 30 minutes, but you need to let the AlumaDucer sit at least 12 hours before turning on your sonar. By going fishing the same day you mounted your AlumaDucer, the ping of the transducer actually pulled the AlumaDucer away from the hull and while it was still soft, it worked, but once it fully sets, an air pocket was created. The only solution is to remove the transducer and start over. Sorry...


QUESTION: I have installed my AlumaDucer in the wrong spot and need to remove it. How do I do it without damage to my AlumaDucer?


ANSWER: We at Vexilar have become experts in removing AlumaDucers from boats for testing. We have found that a rubber hammer or even block of wood makes this task easy. The hard part is getting the correct angle on the AlumaDucer to break it loose. You want to strike the top of the AlumaDucer from a low angle to pop the AlumaDucer free. DO NOT use a standard hammer to do this; the sudden shock may damage your transducer. A little heat applied to the underside of the hull will also help release the epoxy.


Be sure to lightly sand the face of the transducer top remove the old Epoxy before re-applying the AlumaDucer.


QUESTION: I installed my AlumaDucer last winter and when I went fishing this spring, it didn't work at all.


ANSWER: We have found that the hull of your boats needs to be at least 60 degrees or higher to get the A.C.E. Epoxy to bond with the Aluminum. Even if you prepared the surface correctly, about 20% of the installs may not take. You will need to remove the AlumaDucer and re-mount it when the air temperatures are above 60 degrees for at least 12 hours. 


QUESTION: I'm running my little boat and find that if I lean one way I get a bottom reading and if I lean the other, the signal disappears. What is going on?


ANSWER: Small aluminum boats, especially ones that exceed 25 miles per hour are very weight sensitive as you increase your speeds. With only one angler in the boat, it is always best to mount the AlumaDucer on the same side of the boat as the lone angler. Most boats tend to list to that side. If you put more than one person in a small aluminum boat, the weight shifts again comes into play as the second angler might weight more than the first.


Our testing shows that the closer you can mount transducer to the center keel of the boat, the more consistent your signals will be no matter whom is in the boat.


QUESTION: I've been running the AlumaDucer for over a year and now with no problem, but now I lost bottom signal at high speeds, what could it be?


ANSWER: Vexilar has been testing the AlumaDucer for years to insure its performance and reliability. One of the key differences between fiberglass and aluminum hulls is that in time, some aluminum hulls change their shape, the hull may have been damaged by impacts or the hull could change shape if you have a sitting on a roller style trailer. The ever changing shape of your flexible aluminum hull might change the performance of your AlumaDucer over time, so re-installing the transducer in a new location may be needed.


QUESTION: I have a jet boat hull with a thick aluminum hull and your AlumaDucer is only rated for hulls .150 thick, will it still work?


ANSWER: YOU BET, When Vexilar targeted the Aluminum boat market for fishermen; we tested the most common hull thickness which is .090 thick. With the super thick hulls found on a jet boat, you might experience a 10 to 15% loss in sensitivity. The advantage most jet boat owners have is that these boats are commonly used in shallow water or most shallow water fishing situations, you will probably not notice the drop in power at all.


QUESTION: Will the AlumaDucer work on other units besides the ones you have adapters for?


ANSWER: The Vexilar Accessory Adaptors we have created fit almost 98% the sonar systems on the market today. If your sonar is of a compatible frequency system and does not have a compatible Accessory Adaptor, then your options are few since you would need to create your own connector system to be able to use the AlumaDucer. For a flat service fee of $35.00 Vexilar will put your needed connector on an AlumaDucer and it will not require any adaptor at all, since it will be custom made to your specific unit. (provided transducers plugs are still available.


QUESTION: Will I still be able to use my temp meter with the AlumaDucer?


ANSWER: If your unit has the temp sensor built into the transducer, then no. If your unit has a separate temp sensor probe available, then yes.


QUESTION: My hull has a pretty good rise. Will the AlumaDucer still work?  


ANSWER: The "V" shape of your hull near the transom varies from boat to boat. The dead rise of some hulls could be as steep as 22 degrees. The performance of the AlumaDucer may affect the way your unit displays bottom when you get in depths deeper than 60 feet. In shallower water applications, the display is not noticeable to most, so yes, your AlumaDucer will work.


Got a question that's not addressed here? Please ask us.


-----------------------------------------------------


Simple In-Hull



Image Courtesy of Voyager Canoe OutfittersWhen we take our depth finder in a boat that is not our own, the biggest challenge is mounting the transducer. You want a good reading, but you do not want to hassle with it. There is a much easier and inexpensive way to mount a transducer portably than by using a bulky clamp-on device or sticking to an unsure surface with suction cups. It is a perfect example of the saying "simpler is better". Just like the high performance bass boats of today, you can use most any type of transducer placed in the hull to get similar results in even the most basic fishing boat.


By setting the transducer on the bottom of the boat hull in a puddle of water you can read clearly, just as if the transducer were mounted on the outside of the boat. The only requirement is that the hull must be constructed of a single layer of material, like aluminum or fiberglass. The water acts as an effective sound conductor between the transducer and the hull, and then out to the water below. It's best to find a good flat spot near the center of the stern away from the ribs or rivets. Most of the time you can expect very good high-speed performance as well.


Transducer for portable fishingThis can be done with most any transducer type that was designed to read on your unit. When you first set it down, wet the transducer by rubbing some water on the face of it. Slide it around and look at the unit. Find the location where the bottom signal looks the strongest. Make sure It's sitting in at least 1/4" of clean water. Don't be surprised to find that it may vibrate and move out of place at times. Placing a sopping wet rag around and over it can help keep it in position.


A minor drawback to using this method is the abuse that your transducer goes through. Any hits to the transducer face can be bad for the transducer. The extreme vibration between it and the hull can be damaging to the transducer. After time, it can become weak. You'll notice that you aren't seeing as many fish or your losing bottom when it gets deep and soft. Then It's time for a new one. This doesn't happen when the transducer is glassed or glued into place. You can help the situation by putting the transducer down only when you're most interested in looking at the depth finder. Also, keep the area of water clean and free of gritty sand and dirt. Oil and gas in the water can make readings very difficult as well. Keep a clean rag along and wipe the face of the transducer from time to time.


It's not fancy, but this method of mounting a transducer is very simple and effective. And there is one less thing hanging onto the outside of the boat that you need to worry about.


MTB


-----------------------------------------------------


Mounting In-Hull Transducers




In-Hull transducers are attached to the inside of the hull of the boat and conduct sound directly through the hull. Puck style transducers are usually used for this application, but Bass boats with in-hull transducerany type will work. When properly mounted, an In-Hull transducer will give a very clean reading at any boat speed. The advantage of In-Hull mounting, besides clearer high speed readings, is that there is nothing mounted to the boat externally to get damaged or snagged on weeds. This can be a great benefit on bass boats and even canoes.


The disadvantage is that it's more difficult to mount and to remove if something goes wrong. Here are some tips to help insure a good mount so that, hopefully, you can get a good installation the first time.


Diagram of proper in-hull transducer installation1.    Find the spot where you will mount the transducer. The best place is in the center of the hull near the transom. Boats differ in hull design and quality. Once you find an accessible spot you should test it before you glue down the transducer.


2.    To test the spot you need to make sure it is clean of dirt, oil, gas, and general bilge slime. Once the spot is clean it's time to head for the water. After the boat has been launched, put some water in the bilge, just enough to cover the area where the transducer will be mounted


3.    Now the tricky part, hold, or have someone or something hold, the transducer in place as you drive the boat. A ziplock bag of sand can be handy for this. You should have a good reading as the boat moves slow, if not, move the transducer around until you do. Get the boat up on plane and see how your reading changes. If the reading becomes scrambled to the point where you cannot determine what the bottom is you are shooting through "white water" and you'll need to find a new spot. If the reading looks good you've got your spot.


Once you know where you want to attach the transducer, and you've got the spot dried out, you can begin the gluing process.  A good two part epoxy, such as the Vexilar A.C.E. adhesive, is the best glue as far as being a good conductor of sound.


For mounting in aluminum hull boats you should use a transducer specially designed for aluminum in-hull mounting. Normal transducers will have signal losses of up to 70%. Many sonar systems will fail to show a bottom with losses like this.


The key to a good glue job is making sure that the surface is clean and that there are no air bubbles in the glue. Once you've got the transducer in the glue, move it around and force all the air out before you set it into place. Do not turn on the depth finder before the glue is completely dry.


Follow these steps and you're sure to get a good in-hull transducer installation.







 
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Re: Where would you place your transducer?
by on 05/10/2008 9:13 PM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2004
Location: ND
Thank you for all your help. Have a great day
Bryan Renner
12 Replies | Page 1 of 11 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page
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Posted On: 05/09/2008 8:40 PM
4537 Views, 12 Comments

Tags: transducer, place, hull, inside, boat, epoxying, tryed, ing, placeing, bought
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