For those of you that don't think coyotes eat deer

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For those of you that don't think coyotes eat deer

This took place today 02/07/11
 
IN FARGO

in the daylight

I hope this puts to rest the misconception that coyotes do not kill deer!

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Wow. Good pics. I've seen yotes kill deer once. I've seen them packing around deer legs etc several times.

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A couple years ago I drew an antelope buck tag and I shot a nice buck... after I made the shot I watched the herd walk over a hill and by the time we got to the buck a pack of yotes had found my buck and we had to shoot one of them to run them off... when I reached my buck there was nothing left of the hind quarters and all in about 20 min... craziest thing I have ever seen... nature can be very cruel, but now i have a story every time i look at the horn mount.

Twitch

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i expect this in rural areas but not in town. i have seen fox and mink but those are the biggest predators i have seen along the river.

the fact that they are along the river does not surprise me but to be so bold to kill a deer in the middle of the day is a new concept to me

 rEVOLution 2016

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Good photos Tyler, I would be hard pressed not  to take a crack at that yote.

I brought home a fresh yote awhile back and my wife said  "How cute", till I pulled it's jowls back and showed her they are a killin machine. How close did you get?

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moms neighbor took the pics. she apparently did not have the presence of mind to call her local "predator manegment personell" aka me. lol  i woulda left work in a heartbeat.

the yote is like 30 yards from her rear porch window.

 rEVOLution 2016

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I would have shot that freaking coyote.  And if I would not have had a gun, I would have ran out there and scared him off.  I'd rather have the deer around than the coyote.  I understand it's "natural" and everything, but still. 

Amazing pictures though.  My brother has shot 20 of them this winter... and ALL of them in the same place (near Crosby).  It's insane.  I hope he shoots a pile more.

-Justin 

-Justin

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dakota1977 Said:
.  I hope he shoots a pile more.

-Justin 

+1

 rEVOLution 2016

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Its Fargo - arm pit captial of the world --- I im the deer - i would be eaten too -- who TF wants to be outside tonight.  Full stomach or not.  Barrow is about 10 degrees warmer right now. 

Stay thirsty my friends

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moosehunter09 Said:
i expect this in rural areas but not in town. i have seen fox and mink but those are the biggest predators i have seen along the river.

the fact that they are along the river does not surprise me but to be so bold to kill a deer in the middle of the day is a new concept to me

why didn't someone kill it someone must have a 22 and a snow blower that happened to backfire. the carb on the blower flooded. dump some gas on the floor.
 most of the snowblowers would flood trying to start them at 0 or lower and backfire
or find an oldJ8 champion and increase the gap to about .060 then it will backfire.

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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Haha, there are people who dont think coyotes kill deer? You're kidding, right? I mean, nobody can be that stupid.

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I have no doubts that coyotes kill deer.  I live just outside the FM area and have only seen a couple coyotes so far this year that i never had a shot at, the feral or free ranging dogs have been hell on the deer but I plan on supplementing their diet with a bit of lead as soon as possible.

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BringingThePAIN Said:
Haha, there are people who dont think coyotes kill deer? You're kidding, right? I mean, nobody can be that stupid.

is that sarcasm?

if you look on other threads it is a common conclusion many have made that coyotes are
A incapable of taking down a deer
B more interested in meals that are less work
C "studies" show that deer are not a part of the coyotes diet 

the proof is in the pudding, or in this case the photos

 rEVOLution 2016

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moose, that by fargo country club? kind of what the background looks like. just across the river from me( well about 1/2 mile south) been seeing 8-10deer down by interstate 94 bridge.

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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moosehunter09 Said:

BringingThePAIN Said:
Haha, there are people who dont think coyotes kill deer? You're kidding, right? I mean, nobody can be that stupid.

is that sarcasm?

if you look on other threads it is a common conclusion many have made that coyotes are
A incapable of taking down a deer
B more interested in meals that are less work
C "studies" show that deer are not a part of the coyotes diet 

the proof is in the pudding, or in this case the photos

No, it wasn't. I don't remember reading any of those threads, where people didnt think coyotes ate deer. I thought that was common sense. Wow.

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http://www.fishingbuddy.com/attention_all_hunters

this is one of the threads i an talking about. take note of multis first post. he will get a kick out of this thread

 rEVOLution 2016

Hardwaterman
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Now, why go and  post something like that to put egg on the face of the G&F in regards to predator impact upon deer. First off, in Fargo there is enough feral cats to keep most coyotes fed. This simply has to be a photo shop and you simply took pictures of a deer deer being fed upon by the coyote whom are simply scavengers not predators!!!!!!!

!

Just in case someone misses the smiley, this is a sarcastic post!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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The most coyotes Ive seen running around together was 5. I saw pack of 4 during muzzle loader season. A group like that would make short work of a deer in deep snow. They dont have a chance if they get off trail

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I am all about shooting every coyote I see, but I don't think they are as detrimental to the deer population as one may think.  coyotes are opportunistic feeders (just like most animals)  and I think it's alot safer and easier for a yote to stay in a 200 square foot area and pick off mice for a meal vs. trying to overpower a 200lb deer or even risk picking off a fawn.

Yes I know coyotes eat deer, but just one lone dog isn't dining on big game all by himself, and in the central part of the state I have never seen more than 2 together at a time.  although I am sure they can and do pack up here and go after deer, but I don't think its enough to really worry about.  In fact, I'd guess poaching and motor vehicle collisions do more damage than the coyotes do.

I looked at stomach contents research results for various studies in different states with different institutions (one study was on over 8,000 individuals) and found that only between 1 and 3% (depending on the season and location) of the coyotes diet was deer.  The rest was mice and other similar small mammals, carion (road kill) fruits, (wild plums crab apples etc.) bugs, snakes etc etc.  basically anything edible, other than deer.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, don't be so hard on yourself next time you forget the rifle.  You'll do more good and make more money turning in a poacher...way more money!

What part of my post in that thread says coyotes don't eat deer?

these photos will change deer management in North Dakota forever.  I don't think the game and fish had a clue.

I think the harsh winter with deep snow and extended periods of sub zero temps are more to blame than the dog.

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Will they eat oranges?

 Nuke the Whales

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Coyotes kill deer. It's called the food chain. It's happened for years. This year is no different. Doesn't mean they kill all the deer. The weak don't make it. We kill pheasants, fish, DEER. It's the food chain!

Game and Fish also know it's been going on. It's natural game management.

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G/F  don't even come close to taking  coyotes killing fawns into consideration,  Coyotes have been wiping out the fawn crop up here in  the NW  hard for last 10 years........What did they do?  Give out MORE doe tags for a new  "managment goal".       We live here so we see all the does running around without fawns every fall.    They take nothing into consideration but depredation complaints and thier checkbook.    Professional.

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Just thought everyone should know that the only way i kill coyotes is road hunting or if one gets up while walking for deer.    

One Big Ass Mistake America !

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They may acknoweldge it goes on, but do not factor in predator impact upon recruitment. I like these guys but I was in Whapeton last spring listening to Randy speak on this issue. He was giddy with the fact we had a much shorter and milder winter and recruitment for the 09 year class was to be good.  Thus peope like myself and others who wanted steeper cuts in doe tags where pooh hooed as being alarmists. That the big jump in predators in the areas where not of any concern. Have heard this from the G&F for a number of years as many hunters and landowners from various units kept reporting fawn births, but the disappearance of the faws during the months of June,July,August.

Fast forward to the meeting in VC and we got the song and dance that the long winter caused the does to have weak fawns that died after birth. They dismissed the fact that in my case hunting 3 days the first weekend I saw a total of 22 deer (some likely more than once) and 32 coyotes. Dismiss the fact that farmers where reporting seeing no deer in the corn while harvesting. Our renter harvested 1000 acres of corn and saw 2 deer. Just 3 years ago they where seeing hundreds of deer on this same ground in the corn.

I am not blaming the drop in deer solely on coyotes, I understand the impact of the last few winters, but predator impact when you have a high level of predators and low deer numbers is a factor that needs to be included in the recruitment numbers. The old song and dance that we have always had coyotes is simply a response that shows they have no clue in this regard.

SNOW,COLD, are the main factors that influence deer numbers, but they are not the only factors. People including myself have been monitoring the deer yards in our home area. The fact that you see one to two young deer per 100 animals tells the real story. No recruitment from a host of factors including predators and loss due to climate conditions have deer populations in portions of almost every unit at levels equivalent to the mid 1970's.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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I've been talking to some friends that have been watching coyotes take deer out of thier local herd at a rate of almost a deer a day.  That really was shocking to me, but we went out driving around and in a few hours seen nearly 20 dogs.  (killed 4)  Its pretty amazing the imbalance we have at the moment. 

At the same time I am in agreeance that I believe the winter takes more deer than predators, but I think everybody is fairly aware of that.  What I don't understand is why a department that works for the people will not listen to what the people have to say and take it to heart.?.  My personal feeling is maybe we should be electing our directors instead of appointing them.  I'm not sure if that is the answer or not... 

Nice pictures moosehunter!  Very impressive!

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Saw two fox the other day IN Minot city limits. They were camped out a couple hundred yards from a group of deer. I suppose, just waiting for a tired/sick deer to tip over.

 


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Hardwater,

My feelings on coyotes are similar in that they are obviously not the sole contributor to issues not only in deer but other wildlife populations but they will be a culprit and to me, a big culprit for a couple years AFTER major winters.

Yotes are survivors.  Most of the mange yotes have already died.  We now have a good population of coyotes who are seasoned survivors.  Yes, mange will be a player because of large populations but right now, the coyotes are in strong numbers.

With the loss of upland, big game and other prey the coyotes survive off of the coyotes will ultimately start to decline naturally.  But that doesn't happen over night because coyotes are natural born survivors.

So what happens (and this is my opinion) is we have a strong population of coyotes putting a pretty good smack down on surviving upland, big game and other prey.  Their smack down is similar to how we as Lake Sakakawea anglers have been putting a nasty smack down on the 2004 and 2005 ish year class of walleyes.  We've been beating up on that population and will continue to for at least a couple more years.  When you do that, you have to wait for the next year class to take its place because you beat up on the "surviving" one so much it almost seemingly disappears.

Coyotes are going to do the same to our surviving populations.  And the result will be a slower recovery in numbers.  In time, that slow recovery will take a hit on the coyote population and as nature goes, the cycle of recovery will start to speed up for other game populations.  However, will it with how much the NDGF talks about loss of CRP?  Good question I think.

I guess this is why I was so adamant about a bounty on coyotes but I QUICKLY bowed out of that discussion when it was evident the ND sportsmen kill around 40,000 yotes a year and fur buyers buy roughly 7,000 to 10,000 furs.  A 2,000 bounty would do nothing.

Regardless, we have a coyote issue from what I seen in the field last year.  More than I can remember in recent years.  I guess I will have to stop not killing them while deer hunting and try to help take some of them down.

But yup, yotes do take down deer. I personally have not seen a coyote take down a healthy deer.  Well, I shouldn't say that.  I watched a mule deer buck get taken down by a pack but assumed it was shot in the rear-end.  Maybe the pack simply got him on their own??  He was bellowing and I hope I never hear that again.  I felt helpless because it was across a big bay on Sakakawea and by the time I could get to rifle range it wouldn't have mattered.  And I wouldn't have shot the coyotes.  I would have shot the deer first to end it for him.

That's the only time I seen something ate alive but I did watch two or three times this year where coyotes were chasing whitetails.  Each incident was lone coyotes and they didn't stand a chance but that told me something.  They were hungry enough to waste energy chasing deer through 12 inches of snow.  Then later that hunting trip I watched two different packs playing.  One was 9 yotes deep.  The other I think was around 5.  Now I have to assume they amassed to accomplish on thing.  And perhaps were playing on full bellies.


 

 

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schmidty626
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Coyotes take big game.  During the winter of 96-97, my dad was feeding cows and witnessed 5 coyotes chasing six deer down a hill about 600 yards from him.  When the deer got down the hill they had to cross a creek bottom, where there was lots of snow.  The coyotes took down the last deer, she turned out to be a yearling.  He snuck up on them later when he got done feeding and took out one yote.  Last winter we had 26 antelope wintering right next to where we were wintering cows.  They would stay on the hilltops and eat sagebrush and some grasses, we also suspect they were eating some of the hay after dark.  The antelope herd started dwindling in January and we started to spot carcasses.   I witnessed three coyotes chase the herd off the hilltops and once they hit the deep, drifted snow they took one speed goat out.   Those antelope are not equipped for snow in any way.  We were able to take a few coyotes out ourselves.  In the middle of march, a federal wildlife specialist/hunter came with a plane and in the matter of a half hour took out 22 coyotes.  (We have a neighbor with a small herd of sheep, and apparently the feds set some money a side for predator control for sheep, I believe this money was cut this year).  The plane flies low and flushes the coyotes and he shoots them with buck shot.  (Looks like a lot of fun!)

Don't get my wrong, I believe the tough winters with deep snow kill more deer and antelope than the coyotes, but the coyotes definately are a factor in those years.  They are survivors and will pack up and use the elements to their advantage.

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Yup, several stories back home when we use to have antelope.  The winter killed the antelope but the coyotes took advantage of the winter.  We've had three antelope since 1997.  I'm sure they'll never return.

Then again, they shouldn't have been there in the first place really!  Too many good winters in the late 80's and early 90's.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
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The only thing coyotes eat is copper....

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Great pictures. its great to a hunter harvest a deer without even bothering to set out a trail cam, guess its score, or give it a cheesy nickname.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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ggenthusiast Said:
Great pictures. its great to a hunter harvest a deer without even bothering to set out a trail cam, guess its score, or give it a cheesy nickname.

Ok....gg that's a little better than your unedited version, but just by a hair.  Have you been drinking today? 

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They do but it's not the reason for deer numbers down. The combination of record high numbers of deer license and 3 brutal winters are why their numbers are down. If this were in the fall it would never happen. Only when snow is deep is when deer are vulnerable. However with all of that. There are exceptions tot he rule. 

moosehunter09 Said:
This took place today 02/07/11
 
IN FARGO

in the daylight

I hope this puts to rest the misconception that coyotes do not kill deer!

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The G&F's position on coyotes affecting deer populations is in my opinion the same as their position on slot limits for walleyes, stupid.  They should more actively set management programs to help our natural resources (wildlife & fish) and be proactive in response to the current state of population levels.  This goes for both wildlife and fish.  I have said it before on here that slot limits would help sustain quality fishing in various bodies of water across the state.  But they will never do it because they can not scientifically prove that it works.  I agree that the coyote/deer problem is more complex but clearly they could do something.  One thing they never mention is the drastic reduction in trappers.  Since the PETA people drove the prices of fur so low barely anyone traps anymore.  That has made a huge difference in predator populations, coyotes, skunk, raccoon and mink populations have increased.  Fox populations have actually decreased at least in the western part of the state (coyote kill them).  These population increases in predators have not only put additional pressure on our deer herds but the skunk/raccoon/mink cause a bunch of trouble with the upland game and waterfowl.  I don't have the answers but anybody that is an outdoorsman can clearly see that a problem exists and it would be nice to have a G&F department that would try to fix the problem instead of trying to blow smoke up are arses.

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Riggen&Jiggen Said:
The G&F's position on coyotes affecting deer populations is in my opinion the same as their position on slot limits for walleyes, stupid.  They should more actively set management programs to help our natural resources (wildlife & fish) and be proactive in response to the current state of population levels.  This goes for both wildlife and fish.  I have said it before on here that slot limits would help sustain quality fishing in various bodies of water across the state.  But they will never do it because they can not scientifically prove that it works.  I agree that the coyote/deer problem is more complex but clearly they could do something.  One thing they never mention is the drastic reduction in trappers.  Since the PETA people drove the prices of fur so low barely anyone traps anymore.  That has made a huge difference in predator populations, coyotes, skunk, raccoon and mink populations have increased.  Fox populations have actually decreased at least in the western part of the state (coyote kill them).  These population increases in predators have not only put additional pressure on our deer herds but the skunk/raccoon/mink cause a bunch of trouble with the upland game and waterfowl.  I don't have the answers but anybody that is an outdoorsman can clearly see that a problem exists and it would be nice to have a G&F department that would try to fix the problem instead of trying to blow smoke up are arses.

What do you want them to do? spend all year trapping?

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Riggen&Jiggen Said:
The G&F's position on coyotes affecting deer populations is in my opinion the same as their position on slot limits for walleyes, stupid.  They should more actively set management programs to help our natural resources (wildlife & fish) and be proactive in response to the current state of population levels.  This goes for both wildlife and fish.  I have said it before on here that slot limits would help sustain quality fishing in various bodies of water across the state.  But they will never do it because they can not scientifically prove that it works.  I agree that the coyote/deer problem is more complex but clearly they could do something.  One thing they never mention is the drastic reduction in trappers.  Since the PETA people drove the prices of fur so low barely anyone traps anymore.  That has made a huge difference in predator populations, coyotes, skunk, raccoon and mink populations have increased.  Fox populations have actually decreased at least in the western part of the state (coyote kill them).  These population increases in predators have not only put additional pressure on our deer herds but the skunk/raccoon/mink cause a bunch of trouble with the upland game and waterfowl.  I don't have the answers but anybody that is an outdoorsman can clearly see that a problem exists and it would be nice to have a G&F department that would try to fix the problem instead of trying to blow smoke up are arses.

What would you have the NDGF do about the coyote "problem"? Eh?

Instead of stating and providing evidence that bounties don't work, errr blow smoke up your ass, what would you like to see done?

Oh my god. Coyotes kill deer. The world is ending. The end is near.

Of course they kill deer. You are witnessing mother nature at work.

I read an article in Field and Stream last weekend about the good, bad and ugly with the gaining popularity in deer hunting. I couldn't help but think that I could add another  item to their ugly list; legislation to enact a coyote bounty. Seriously, I would thoroughly like to see, with the help of God, mother nature and of course the NDGF, all our deer disappear. Maybe then people will start becoming a little more rational, tempers will settle, land access will get better, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc............So much BS and problems arise in this state, and many others, because of deer hunting. This sudden hatred and "paranoia" of coyotes is just one of them. 

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Ok, fellas, where the hell can a guy go do some driving around not far from Fargo and see some yotes? I have been out n bout a few times without seeing any. I wouldn't mind killing some


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swanson Said:
Ok, fellas, where the hell can a guy go do some driving around not far from Fargo and see some yotes? I have been out n bout a few times without seeing any. I wouldn't mind killing some

It's hard to see them when your tipping a beer back all the time.  hehe

"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."

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LOV2HNT Said:

swanson Said:
Ok, fellas, where the hell can a guy go do some driving around not far from Fargo and see some yotes? I have been out n bout a few times without seeing any. I wouldn't mind killing some

It's hard to see them when your tipping a beer back all the time.  hehe

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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LOV2HNT Said:

swanson Said:
 

It's hard to see them when your tipping a beer back all the time.  hehe

not necessarily

the more food you have in your mouth, the better you can taste it !!

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Whisky,

That's the million dollar question.  I guess the only feasible answer is to do more extensive deer surveys each winter.  And then adjust tag numbers accordingly with relation to all the inputs including the population of coyotes.  We won't have this big population for long, Mother Nature will do her thing but the question is do we accept Mother Nature like the Army Corp of Engineers did or do we adjust a little until she helps?


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
Hardwaterman
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whisky, coyotes are part of the landscape, just like habitat,winter conditions etc..... but the G&F have not taken into account the impact of higher population of predators against recruitment numbers, coupled with the loss of habitat and that is the issue.

To maintain or expand a population all factors of mortality have to be looked at and they are not and have not and admit to this. I am most of the time a supporter of the G&F but when they miss the boat, and then try and make excuses for missing it instead of admitting it. I get PO'ed!

It took the better part and continued questioning to get the admission, and then they floored us by telling us that they will not consider predator mortality into the tag equation!

Now why is that I do not know, but I want to know and I think it is fair to ask this question.

You ask what to do, in regards to the coyote population, trapping and hunting will not lower the population significantly and that I am well aware of. It is why I see a bounty as a waste of money. The solution is mother nature in regards to coyotes, mange will be back and it will have its affect like it has in years past.

Tim touched on this a bit, but the biggest thing is proper management now of the tags for deer. What are those numbers, well in my unit, going back to pre 1980 levels should be the starting point. If the population jumps and winters are mild, then it is easy to up the ante, but right now the population levels reflect those numbers and nothing more.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Dirty.
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Without a doubt coyotes kill quite a few fawns. As for adult deer, most months out of the year I highly doubt they kill many that aren't severly disadvantaged in some way...injured, diseased, or like they are right now...very burdened by deep snow with a hard crust, months of tough winter and fat burning subzero temps, probably pretty run down without much energy or access to food in many places. Now is when coyotes can probably really take advantage of deer with so many being weak and very limited by the snow in their ability to escape.  So while the coyotes are putting the finishing blow on some of the deer, I blame another loooooong winter for the most part. I wouldn't call this winter super harsh either, but it has simply failed to let up since the beginning. Hardly any warm weather and lots of snow. Nothing like 66, 97 or 08, but coming on the heels of two other tougher than average winters, it's a deer's worst nightmare and a coyote's dream come true. I would have to assume, though, that the coyotes still probably target the weakest prey out there like any energy conserving predator would, so many of the deer, antelope, etc. they are taking out may very well be those that probably weren't going to make it much longer anyway.

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multi-species-angler
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I say don't kill a single coyote, in fact feed them.  Start putting out troughs of alpo and Old Roy. get their population so high and dense that when mange shows up it takes em out in one blow, thats a realistic idea.

Seriously...what do some of you expect the game and fish to do? 

I agree, lets wipe out the pheasants, walleyes, and especially whitetails and we can enjoy a thousand other species to kill without argument and blame.

Yes coyotes eat deer...so do I, and I just have to deal with the fact that I might not be able to shoot 6 of them next year because of low numbers and harsh winters. 

I think we need to stop driving a half hour before and a half hour after dark.

How many of you think animal populations are supposed to be stable and consistant, just like our seasons and weather patterns.  SOOOOO many variables affect each specie, and it's way more complicated than a slot limit or a bounty.

Why is our deer season never good enough for some of you?  on what planet do you go shoot a 180 class buck and 3 200lb does every year?

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moosehunter09
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Joined: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 10:40pm

multi-species-angler Said:

I am all about shooting every coyote I see, but I don't think they are as detrimental to the deer population as one may think.  coyotes are opportunistic feeders (just like most animals)  and I think it's alot safer and easier for a yote to stay in a 200 square foot area and pick off mice for a meal vs. trying to overpower a 200lb deer or even risk picking off a fawn.

Yes I know coyotes eat deer, but just one lone dog isn't dining on big game all by himself, and in the central part of the state I have never seen more than 2 together at a time.  although I am sure they can and do pack up here and go after deer, but I don't think its enough to really worry about.  In fact, I'd guess poaching and motor vehicle collisions do more damage than the coyotes do.

I looked at stomach contents research results for various studies in different states with different institutions (one study was on over 8,000 individuals) and found that only between 1 and 3% (depending on the season and location) of the coyotes diet was deer.  The rest was mice and other similar small mammals, carion (road kill) fruits, (wild plums crab apples etc.) bugs, snakes etc etc.  basically anything edible, other than deer.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, don't be so hard on yourself next time you forget the rifle.  You'll do more good and make more money turning in a poacher...way more money!

What part of my post in that thread says coyotes don't eat deer?

these photos will change deer management in North Dakota forever.  I don't think the game and fish had a clue.

I think the harsh winter with deep snow and extended periods of sub zero temps are more to blame than the dog.

it is easy to simply site one research paper to prove your point, politicians do it all the time. i can site a couple that contradict yours.

iam notsaying yotes are a MAJOR reason the deer are down but they as well asother predators from wolves to mtn lions as well as coyotes, bobcats and pets ARE A FACTOR in the survival rate of not only fawns but adults as well.

 rEVOLution 2016

Hardwaterman
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Dirty, multi, populations of deer are fairly fluid and will grow most times unchecked without our hunting them. The reason many like myself are upset is not because I want to shoot a 180 class deer. If you look back, horn hunters,trophy worship is not been good for our sport.

What I am talking about is the G&F not doing what they claim they do regarding deer herds. First off, the G&F have stated that they want to create as much opportunity they can while balancing hunter wants, with those of landowners in regards to pressure and predation. Farmers and ranchers are those who deal with the deer year around, I side with them in the level of tolerance they can stand. However it is landowners,farmers who are telling the G&F that the deer levels are lower than they want to see.

You have exceptions that want no deer and others who want a 180 class buck in every slough or shelter belt. Toss out the extreme and focus on what is being said from the rest.

The issue is not if coyotes eat, fawns,adults, it is the fact that the G&F are ignoring this impact upon recruitment and as a result we have many units now way under tolerant levels. Last year was one of the first years I can remember seeing some lands posted back home. In talking with the owners, it was lack of deer that caused them to post. They took it upon themselves to protect the brood stock. Others who post but allowed doe hunting said NO! for the same reason.

We chose not to fill a couple doe tags for the same reason, instead we hunted coyotes and waterfowl. I am also well aware of the impact winter has. But a bad winter last year with a lush and wet summer does not carry over to the next. Both deer we took where as fat as any deer and in fact maybe even fatter thanks to the fact they did not have any young of the year to feed.

In regards to animals being weak, the coyotes are now benefiting from the recent warm up and melting. They carry over the top of the snow. They harass the deer until one breaks off into deep snow due to panic. Then take them. Not weak,sick or a deer that is going to die in another day or next week.

I can live with what mother nature dishes out, have always said it is the great equalizer, however mortality by hunters coupled with Mother Nature is reduced populations below levels that most landowners want.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Whisky
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Joined: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 - 10:11am

Hardwaterman Said:
To maintain or expand a population all factors of mortality have to be looked at and they are not and have not and admit to this. I am most of the time a supporter of the G&F but when they miss the boat, and then try and make excuses for missing it instead of admitting it. I get PO'ed!

Tim touched on this a bit, but the biggest thing is proper management now of the tags for deer. What are those numbers, well in my unit, going back to pre 1980 levels should be the starting point. If the population jumps and winters are mild, then it is easy to up the ante, but right now the population levels reflect those numbers and nothing more.

Ok, I will agree with you and Tim that NDGF should cut the tags back. Makes sense. It's about the only thing they can do in this situation. I have no problem with that.

What I don't agree with is bounties, leagalize running em down on sleds, and all the other previous BS mentioned in the past on this site and elsewhere. SD had a bill introduced this year to legalize the running down and shooting of coyotes off snowmobiles. What a joke. Some good old boy must not have filled his 8th doe tag and is pissing and moaning to kill all coyotes by any means possible.

When times are tough, we should pay the price. That price should be less opportunities. If you can't deal with that, too bad. Maybe you should quit hunting and join a book club.

I don't want to see ND turn into the wild west with a war on coyotes. Like already established, mother nature will equal it all out. People are so damn sensitive about deer nowadays, they forget that. 

Whisky
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Joined: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 - 10:11am

Hardwaterman Said:
To maintain or expand a population all factors of mortality have to be looked at and they are not and have not and admit to this. I am most of the time a supporter of the G&F but when they miss the boat, and then try and make excuses for missing it instead of admitting it. I get PO'ed!

Tim touched on this a bit, but the biggest thing is proper management now of the tags for deer. What are those numbers, well in my unit, going back to pre 1980 levels should be the starting point. If the population jumps and winters are mild, then it is easy to up the ante, but right now the population levels reflect those numbers and nothing more.

Ok, I will agree with you and Tim that NDGF should cut the tags back. Makes sense. It's about the only thing they can do in this situation. I have no problem with that.

What I don't agree with is bounties, leagalize running em down on sleds, and all the other previous BS mentioned in the past on this site and elsewhere. SD had a bill introduced this year to legalize the running down and shooting of coyotes off snowmobiles. What a joke. Some good old boy must not have filled his 8th doe tag and is pissing and moaning to kill all coyotes by any means possible.

When times are tough, we should pay the price. That price should be less opportunities. If you can't deal with that, too bad. Maybe you should quit hunting and join a book club.

I don't want to see ND turn into the wild west with a war on coyotes. Like already established, mother nature will equal it all out. People are so damn sensitive about deer nowadays, they forget that. 

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KurtR
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Joined: Monday, April 16, 2007 - 6:32pm

Whisky Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
To maintain or expand a population all factors of mortality have to be looked at and they are not and have not and admit to this. I am most of the time a supporter of the G&F but when they miss the boat, and then try and make excuses for missing it instead of admitting it. I get PO'ed!

Tim touched on this a bit, but the biggest thing is proper management now of the tags for deer. What are those numbers, well in my unit, going back to pre 1980 levels should be the starting point. If the population jumps and winters are mild, then it is easy to up the ante, but right now the population levels reflect those numbers and nothing more.

Ok, I will agree with you and Tim that NDGF should cut the tags back. Makes sense. It's about the only thing they can do in this situation. I have no problem with that.

What I don't agree with is bounties, leagalize running em down on sleds, and all the other previous BS mentioned in the past on this site and elsewhere. SD had a bill introduced this year to legalize the running down and shooting of coyotes off snowmobiles. What a joke. Some good old boy must not have filled his 8th doe tag and is pissing and moaning to kill all coyotes by any means possible.

When times are tough, we should pay the price. That price should be less opportunities. If you can't deal with that, too bad. Maybe you should quit hunting and join a book club.

I don't want to see ND turn into the wild west with a war on coyotes. Like already established, mother nature will equal it all out. People are so damn sensitive about deer nowadays, they forget that. 

you are wrong the guys that want to run with sleds want all the deer dead to.

 Adn

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multi-species-angler
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Joined: Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 1:37pm
it is easy to simply site one research paper to prove your point, politicians do it all the time. i can site a couple that contradict yours.

search the web for coyote diet and stomach contents and look at all the research papers and data.  would one of those sites that contradicts those university and wildlife management studies be fishingbuddy.com?

but just one lone dog isn't dining on big game all by himself,

sorry I forgot to add except when the snow is 3 feet deep, it's 20 below zerow, and the deer is or was possibly previously wounded or starving.

once again...go search and read the data for yourselves.  everyone keeps saying I'm full of fecal matter, or I just regurgitated what I saw on one website....go look for yourselves, you all have google and yahoo.  look at no less than 25 separate sites and studies posted online and you'll find that coyotes do not only eat deer and pheasants.

during this harsh winter after a high animal population followed (as always) by a high predator population what did we expect to happen?

Whisky
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Joined: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 - 10:11am

KurtR Said:

Whisky Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
To maintain or expand a population all factors of mortality have to be looked at and they are not and have not and admit to this. I am most of the time a supporter of the G&F but when they miss the boat, and then try and make excuses for missing it instead of admitting it. I get PO'ed!

Tim touched on this a bit, but the biggest thing is proper management now of the tags for deer. What are those numbers, well in my unit, going back to pre 1980 levels should be the starting point. If the population jumps and winters are mild, then it is easy to up the ante, but right now the population levels reflect those numbers and nothing more.

Ok, I will agree with you and Tim that NDGF should cut the tags back. Makes sense. It's about the only thing they can do in this situation. I have no problem with that.

What I don't agree with is bounties, leagalize running em down on sleds, and all the other previous BS mentioned in the past on this site and elsewhere. SD had a bill introduced this year to legalize the running down and shooting of coyotes off snowmobiles. What a joke. Some good old boy must not have filled his 8th doe tag and is pissing and moaning to kill all coyotes by any means possible.

When times are tough, we should pay the price. That price should be less opportunities. If you can't deal with that, too bad. Maybe you should quit hunting and join a book club.

I don't want to see ND turn into the wild west with a war on coyotes. Like already established, mother nature will equal it all out. People are so damn sensitive about deer nowadays, they forget that. 

you are wrong the guys that want to run with sleds want all the deer dead to.

Sorry to hear that.

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