Supply Side Jesus

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I have went through alpine and buckmasters profiles and it is becoming blatantly obvious they contribute much more value to this site than fishmahn's attacks and failed attempts at humor. When going through fishmahn's "contributions" to this site I noticed that he really thinks he is quite the intellectual with all his little snyde digs. Fishmahn I don't see any pictures of you?  Fishmahn you make jokes about someone's weight maybe you have some self image issues? Projection??

 

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Savage1957 Said:
Wow , The Saviour really was and still is black .

Alpine Said:

"What color was Jesus?"

Why do you ask this question, rhetorical or not?

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Dr. Freak Nasterton Said:
I have went through alpine and buckmasters profiles and it is becoming blatantly obvious they contribute much more value to this site than fishmahn's attacks and failed attempts at humor. When going through fishmahn's "contributions" to this site I noticed that he really thinks he is quite the intellectual with all his little snyde digs. Fishmahn I don't see any pictures of you?  Fishmahn you make jokes about someone's weight maybe you have some self image issues? Projection??

You think you might think that way because you're a conservative and so are alpine and buckmasters?

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Bringing, You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Someday, It may be many years from now, You will be in distress . Whether it be on your death bed or some other issue that you are having a hard time dealing with alone, You will remember these words. It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

You don't even have to know how to pray as long as it comes from your heart and you mean it. I won't dwell on that, Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. And before you thump me for saying that, Remember , I don't claim to be a great Christian, I am not better than you or anyone else but I do believe in my opinion on this. That is one right that nobody can take away .

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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Geothermal Said:
Bringing, You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Someday, It may be many years from now, You will be in distress . Whether it be on your death bed or some other issue that you are having a hard time dealing with alone, You will remember these words. It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

You don't even have to know how to pray as long as it comes from your heart and you mean it. I won't dwell on that, Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. And before you thump me for saying that, Remember , I don't claim to be a great Christian, I am not better than you or anyone else but I do believe in my opinion on this. That is one right that nobody can take away .

Ah, excuse me? What words? It was a pretty simple question.

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BringingTheRain Said:

Geothermal Said:
Bringing, You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Someday, It may be many years from now, You will be in distress . Whether it be on your death bed or some other issue that you are having a hard time dealing with alone, You will remember these words. It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

You don't even have to know how to pray as long as it comes from your heart and you mean it. I won't dwell on that, Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. And before you thump me for saying that, Remember , I don't claim to be a great Christian, I am not better than you or anyone else but I do believe in my opinion on this. That is one right that nobody can take away .

Ah, excuse me? It was a pretty simple innocent question.

   Your question had nothing to do with my post. 

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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Geothermal Said:
It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

what you need to understand is not believing in gods, ghosts, angels, etc. isn't a choice, it's not a "different religion" one can just convert from or to.  Evidence by todays standards does not remotely come close to supporting any of the worlds thousands of religions and belief structures to be even partially true, yet the evidence provided in DNA and our known fossil record alone is so overwhelming to support our own lineage and evolution that it can't be denied by one who is willing to just look at the evidence and not be afraid of boogymen in hell.

Let's say for an experiment we could stand back and "re-boot" the planet so to speak.  completely erase every memory, thought, all history, and start with a fresh planet earth at approximately 10,000 years ago.  everything we have come to know about science and the natural world and universe would be discovered again.  humans would figure out chemistry, map out DNA and understand evolution and our origins.  Humans would rediscover all of the elements and how they were formed in the bowels of stars and supernovas.  They would see how the universe moves and reacts and deduce the beginings of that back to the the big bang.  I can assure you, however, your story about a talking snake would be gone forever.

In the face of fear or death, I'll be looking for ways to overcome and avoid, not to cross my fingers with my eyes closed hoping an invisible man in the sky will rescue me.

Religion is simply a matter of geography, a matter of which religion you were born into.  99.999% of religious people had that religion chosen for them.  As we advance into the future more and more of those people are realizing the religion they were brought up with doesn't work and contradicts the real knowledge of the world around them.

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Geothermal Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

Geothermal Said:
Bringing, You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Someday, It may be many years from now, You will be in distress . Whether it be on your death bed or some other issue that you are having a hard time dealing with alone, You will remember these words. It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

You don't even have to know how to pray as long as it comes from your heart and you mean it. I won't dwell on that, Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. And before you thump me for saying that, Remember , I don't claim to be a great Christian, I am not better than you or anyone else but I do believe in my opinion on this. That is one right that nobody can take away .

Ah, excuse me? It was a pretty simple innocent question.

   Your question had nothing to do with my post. 

Than why bring it up? It's not like not being a Christian is bad.

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Never mind, You will remember what I said some day.  That's all I was trying to accomplish.

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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A poor man can be in love with money, power, and sloth every bit as much as any "rich" man. 

One difference though--- A rich man has it at his disposal and a poor man wishes for it.  Big difference. 

They are not the same.

Its like having sin and lusting for sin.

One can only serve one Master-- is yours money or the Good Lord?

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"Rich" is what one with less calls one with more.  its an opinion. 

Which master do I serve? the good lord, allah, muhamed, zeus, horus?  theres just so many to choose from, which one is the right one?  Is it which ever one you say it is? do I select by region and adjust the worship if I travel?

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 where did the big bang come from? Even better where did matter come from? I think there is a lot left to learn and those that think they have all the answers are the niave ones.

 

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Dr. Freak Nasterton Said:
 where did the big bang come from? Even better where did matter come from? I think there is a lot left to learn and those that think they have all the answers are the niave ones.

so you admit to the big bang, even though it pre-dates the bible by nearly 14 billion years.  If you're christian you can't try to associate modern science and discovery with you're own interpretations of the bible.  you either discredit your own religion, or lead us to believe you are making up a new one.

You can't play the god of the gaps, and say where there's ignorance, there is a god.  there will always be undiscovered territory, there will always be horizons we havn't seen past, and there will always be religious people there to tell everyone god is hiding in those shadows.

Its ok to not know, life wouldn't be very interesting if all the discoveries have been made already

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multi-species-angler Said:

Geothermal Said:
It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

what you need to understand is not believing in gods, ghosts, angels, etc. isn't a choice, it's not a "different religion" one can just convert from or to.  Evidence by todays standards does not remotely come close to supporting any of the worlds thousands of religions and belief structures to be even partially true, yet the evidence provided in DNA and our known fossil record alone is so overwhelming to support our own lineage and evolution that it can't be denied by one who is willing to just look at the evidence and not be afraid of boogymen in hell.

Let's say for an experiment we could stand back and "re-boot" the planet so to speak.  completely erase every memory, thought, all history, and start with a fresh planet earth at approximately 10,000 years ago.  everything we have come to know about science and the natural world and universe would be discovered again.  humans would figure out chemistry, map out DNA and understand evolution and our origins.  Humans would rediscover all of the elements and how they were formed in the bowels of stars and supernovas.  They would see how the universe moves and reacts and deduce the beginings of that back to the the big bang.  I can assure you, however, your story about a talking snake would be gone forever.

In the face of fear or death, I'll be looking for ways to overcome and avoid, not to cross my fingers with my eyes closed hoping an invisible man in the sky will rescue me.  

Don't ever say never, I have saw people on their death bed a few times and there are a lot of things going through their minds. 

It is never too late to fold your hands and say a prayer.

Religion is simply a matter of geography, a matter of which religion you were born into.  99.999% of religious people had that religion chosen for them.  As we advance into the future more and more of those people are realizing the religion they were brought up with doesn't work and contradicts the real knowledge of the world around them.

I won't disagree that science and religion contradict each other, I am quite interested in science and fossils myself. I don't claim to believe everything in the Bible actually happened the way it is written I also don't believe everything that scientists say is true. Religion was taught to me when I was just a toddler in Sunday School and over the years I struggled with it until the  day I found myself dealing with a life or death situation with a young person that is very dear to me.  Oilfield accident, scull cracked wide open from the top of his head to the ear canal. The chances of this person surviving and being normal again was slim. I had two options, Swear like a trooper and throw stuff around and blame myself for letting it happen or ask God for a little favor. I spent a week straight sitting in ICU waiting for this person to either die or come back around. Long story short, This person today is the smartest person and the fastest thinker that I personally know. (can do a rubik cube in about 20 seconds) 4.0 GPA in college without ever taking a book home to study and is a mechanical Engineer. He acomplishes new feats every year that normal people only dream about. I have two options, either believe it was all luck or thank God just incase there really is a God. I choose to believe that God was watching over us . Not taking anything away from modern medicine because without a Hospital it is anyone's guess what would have happened. Do you think I am crazy because I believe what I do ? Even if you do, That's fine with me, I am comfortable either way. Just thought I would share my reason.   Forgot to mention , For what it's worth , That person was a Christian before  I was.

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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multi-species-angler Said:

Dr. Freak Nasterton Said:
 where did the big bang come from? Even better where did matter come from? I think there is a lot left to learn and those that think they have all the answers are the niave ones.

so you admit to the big bang, even though it pre-dates the bible by nearly 14 billion years.  If you're christian you can't try to associate modern science and discovery with you're own interpretations of the bible.  you either discredit your own religion, or lead us to believe you are making up a new one.

You can't play the god of the gaps, and say where there's ignorance, there is a god.  there will always be undiscovered territory, there will always be horizons we havn't seen past, and there will always be religious people there to tell everyone god is hiding in those shadows.

Its ok to not know, life wouldn't be very interesting if all the discoveries have been made already

It's okay not to have faith either.

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so you think that since the odds were against his survival and he survived that means there's a "god"  you thank god for his survival, but do you at least know the surgeon's name's that worked on him.

I would like to think that a god that would save your friend from an oil field accident could at least lift a finger to stop bone cancer in children.

I guess I'm different, where I thank the experienced surgeons and medical staff at St. Alexis in bismarck for my survival, not ghosts.

religion not only contradicts science, logic, and reason, it contradicts itself.

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 our known fossil record alone is so overwhelming to support our own lineage and evolution that it can't be denied by one who is willing to just look at the evidence

One of the greatest pitfalls to learning is arrogance.  I often hear the words "we know", and laugh.  There are some things we know, and some things we think we know.  I believe there is so much we don't know that we know less than 1% of what there is to know.  Many of the great civilizations thought no one would ever equal them, and today they look nearly cave man compared to us.  In the future they will look at us as nearly cave man.  Further into the future those people will be looked at as likewise primitive.

When speaking of evolution people are always upset to be reminded that it is theory.  They call it a cop out.  I call it respectful of science.  If your going to teach it as law your not respectful of science.  There are reasons for calling things theory.  The greatest damage by not respecting it as theory is the resulting stagnation of science.  For example would anyone in their right mind keep searching for their car keys after finding them?  I think not.  Likewise if people think evolution is true will they keep searching for alternative answers.  I think they will not give it the same effort. 

So many people want to buy into evolution because they think it makes them look sophisticated.  Do they understand that statistics tell us that anything with a greater probability than 1/50,000 requires an outside influence.  I look at the complexity of a single cell and think to myself "if you believe evolution you also believe that if you wait long enough a Ferrari will appear in your living room with the keys in and engine running". 

None of us have an aswer we can prove.  I think evolution has become a religion in itself because it requires faith just like a Christian or a Muslim requires.  So choose your faith.  I'll choose Christian you choose as you wish, but please don't blow your credability by telling me "you know".   If you truely do perhaps you better start publishing because the true scientific world does not know. 

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Geothermal Said:

Never mind, You will remember what I said some day.  That's all I was trying to accomplish.

That is your belief, that is perfectly legal

gst Said:

multi-species-angler Said:

Dr. Freak Nasterton Said:
 where did the big bang come from? Even better where did matter come from? I think there is a lot left to learn and those that think they have all the answers are the niave ones.

so you admit to the big bang, even though it pre-dates the bible by nearly 14 billion years.  If you're christian you can't try to associate modern science and discovery with you're own interpretations of the bible.  you either discredit your own religion, or lead us to believe you are making up a new one.

You can't play the god of the gaps, and say where there's ignorance, there is a god.  there will always be undiscovered territory, there will always be horizons we havn't seen past, and there will always be religious people there to tell everyone god is hiding in those shadows.

Its ok to not know, life wouldn't be very interesting if all the discoveries have been made already

It's okay not to have faith either.

 

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Plainsman Said:

 our known fossil record alone is so overwhelming to support our own lineage and evolution that it can't be denied by one who is willing to just look at the evidence

One of the greatest pitfalls to learning is arrogance.  I often hear the words "we know", and laugh.  There are some things we know, and some things we think we know.  I believe there is so much we don't know that we know less than 1% of what there is to know.  Many of the great civilizations thought no one would ever equal them, and today they look nearly cave man compared to us.  In the future they will look at us as nearly cave man.  Further into the future those people will be looked at as likewise primitive.

When speaking of evolution people are always upset to be reminded that it is theory.  They call it a cop out.  I call it respectful of science.  If your going to teach it as law your not respectful of science.  There are reasons for calling things theory.  The greatest damage by not respecting it as theory is the resulting stagnation of science.  For example would anyone in their right mind keep searching for their car keys after finding them?  I think not.  Likewise if people think evolution is true will they keep searching for alternative answers.  I think they will not give it the same effort. 

So many people want to buy into evolution because they think it makes them look sophisticated.  Do they understand that statistics tell us that anything with a greater probability than 1/50,000 requires an outside influence.  I look at the complexity of a single cell and think to myself "if you believe evolution you also believe that if you wait long enough a Ferrari will appear in your living room with the keys in and engine running". 

None of us have an aswer we can prove.  I think evolution has become a religion in itself because it requires faith just like a Christian or a Muslim requires.  So choose your faith.  I'll choose Christian you choose as you wish, but please don't blow your credability by telling me "you know".   If you truely do perhaps you better start publishing because the true scientific world does not know. 

ah yes, it's just a theory...remember that a theory by scientific standards still holds more fact based knowledge to even be credited as theory than any religious texts or beliefs.  the proof is there, and the DNA correlates with it, you are from the same branch as a chimpanzee, that is a fact.  No credible scientists or researchers are searching for alternative answers to that, only creationists and religious people search for alternatives to what the evidence has shown us.

"that evolution crap is just a theory, there's not enough evidence to PROVE it, so I'm gonna stick with my faith based beliefs in invisible beings"

how many fossils must you see, how many times must you see a cell mutate, you believe science can look at DNA samples and tell you who your relatives are you believe it can look at your DNA and your mother's DNA and tell you how you're related, but you choose to disbelieve that the same processes of analyzing DNA that shows our relation to chimps and the hundreds of other hominid species that went extinct.

no one "buys" into evolution, we critically analyze the data presented to us through the scientific method.  The fossils, the dates, DNA, visible cell mutation all the thousands of puzzle pieces.  There is DNA evidence, there is visual evidence, and there is overwhelming fossil evidence of evolution. The thing about science is, when a new discovery is made the data is accounted for and the necessary changes are made, unlike religion.

and I'm sorry, but when it comes to general evolution, science does know, you just chose to look the other way.  I am not going to supply you with proof of evolution, if you have access to fishing buddy, you have access to google.  and try searching for something other than "how do I argue against evolution in church"  because you'll just get that lame ass ferrari or watchmaker analogy that doesn't hold any water...at all.

a fitting recent National Geographic article...for fun, but I suppose you'll discredit National Geographic by calling it blasphemous leftwing liberal garbage.  just remember, if you question anything about what we know today about evolution, you don't have to believe what you read, you can go look for yourself.  Scientific findings are open and published to the public.

 One does not believe in evolution, you understand it after the facts and evidence is presented to you.  (Click the link below the pic for full article)

ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/fulltext.html

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Plainsman Said:

 our known fossil record alone is so overwhelming to support our own lineage and evolution that it can't be denied by one who is willing to just look at the evidence

One of the greatest pitfalls to learning is arrogance.  I often hear the words "we know", and laugh.  There are some things we know, and some things we think we know.  I believe there is so much we don't know that we know less than 1% of what there is to know.  Many of the great civilizations thought no one would ever equal them, and today they look nearly cave man compared to us.  In the future they will look at us as nearly cave man.  Further into the future those people will be looked at as likewise primitive.

When speaking of evolution people are always upset to be reminded that it is theory.  They call it a cop out.  I call it respectful of science.  If your going to teach it as law your not respectful of science.  There are reasons for calling things theory.  The greatest damage by not respecting it as theory is the resulting stagnation of science.  For example would anyone in their right mind keep searching for their car keys after finding them?  I think not.  Likewise if people think evolution is true will they keep searching for alternative answers.  I think they will not give it the same effort. This is a common misconception about theory, I'm surprised you don't remember. Remember this dicussion from the last religion thread we had on here? When I explained the scientific theory to you with that youtube video of the teacher giving a lesson to his 8 grade class? Even though you had spent 30 some years as a biologist? If you were respectful of science you would have a better understanding of theory. In science, scientific theory is at the top of the totem pole, it is the highest level of certianty you can get. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge there is, and a scientific theory never becomes a scientific law. Scientific laws are used to help describe theory. Theories explain how and why, while laws describe what is happening. Don't forget.

So many people want to buy into evolution because they think it makes them look sophisticated.  Do they understand that statistics tell us that anything with a greater probability than 1/50,000 requires an outside influence.  I look at the complexity of a single cell and think to myself "if you believe evolution you also believe that if you wait long enough a Ferrari will appear in your living room with the keys in and engine running". 

None of us have an aswer we can prove.  I think evolution has become a religion in itself because it requires faith just like a Christian or a Muslim requires.  So choose your faith.  I'll choose Christian you choose as you wish, but please don't blow your credability by telling me "you know".   If you truely do perhaps you better start publishing because the true scientific world does not know. We've gone over this too, with gst and yourself, evolution is not a faith, because it is supported by evidence. Carry on.

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Life is good
 

 

 

 

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Haha

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Bringin, multi, why is it so important to you that your beleif/theories, whatever you wish to call them, overide others faith?

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We've gone over this too, with gst and yourself, evolution is not a faith, because it is supported by evidence. Carry on.

Christianity is supported by evidence also.  Have you ever read any of the ancient historians that were not Christian, but wrote about the life of Jesus?  Try Flavius Josephus to start with.  At least then if you believe there ever was a George Washington you will also believe their was a Jesus Christ.  That's a start, but keep reading other secular history and it will support the Bible. 

I'll be the first to admit Christianity requires faith, but anyone who believes theory as fact has faith as much as any other religion.  Therefore to completely believe evolution is a religion also. 

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and never mind there are well over 400 archeological finds that support the bible

 

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eyexer Said:
and never mind there are well over 400 archeological finds that support the bible

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!  Thats a good one.  you know what you're right there are well over 400 archaelogical finds that "support" the bible.  But there are millions of archaelogical finds, fossils, DNA findings, existing species, visual evidence and on and on and on and on to support evolution, and still you say "yeah well evolution is just a theory".

and remember support the bible as in there was a town called bethlehem etc. etc. not the invisible man in the sky worshipped by this region really exists.

Bringin, multi, why is it so important to you that your beleif/theories, whatever you wish to call them, overide others faith?

hey, you guys do it on doorsteps, I do in on web forums.  I'd go shake faith at the Amish thread, but they don't get the internet so it's pointless.

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multi-species-angler Said:

Bringin, multi, why is it so important to you that your beleif/theories, whatever you wish to call them, overide others faith?

hey, you guys do it on doorsteps, I do in on web forums.  I'd go shake faith at the Amish thread, but they don't get the internet so it's pointless.

Multi, you missed the crux of the question. I'm not interested in "how" you try and negate others faith, more in why it is so important to you to do so.

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 multi, do you deny that Jesus was a real person?? Do you deny the exodus? 

 

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OK, multi-species-angler, you've chosen to be an athiest, or in the least agnostic. 
That takes faith too, a great deal.  You of course would never admit it, but it also leaves a hollow cavity in your being.  You have made your choice.

Faith is not tangible, it is a gift just the same.  Some of the greatest minds in science are devout believers in God, and agree that the more they explored the depths of science the closer they have approached God.  Faith is a gift, but as for them also a choice.  We are not forced to accept it.

A certain Semitc Hebrew who spoke Aramaic with the people of his local did walk this planet once.  He was not black, he was not European white, and none of that matters.  He was here as he was in clear purpose.  But of course, his fossil has never been found.

The jaded theme of this thread was that not a belief system debate.  Although "supply side" was used in spoof and satire it was a call for soclialism.  The left is always trying to paint Jesus as a socialist, as they are always trying to twist anything they possibly can to create the smoke and mirror affect they need.  Jesus was anything but a socialist or capitalist, he was above such secular ideals.  If you can't see that you are still blocking His message.

 

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Multi, you missed the crux of the question. I'm not interested in "how" you try and negate others faith, more in why it is so important to you to do so.
 

for the same reasons you debate, argue, and discuss politics on FBO.  And of course to gain "followers" just as you believe the world would be a better place if every human was christian, I believe it would be a better place without any religion.  And arguing & debating it here with you guys is fun, so try to participate instead of getting all butt hurt.

multi, do you deny that Jesus was a real person?? Do you deny the exodus?

do you deny zeus? do you deny horus or muhamed and the tales told in those religious texts?  do I deny any of it, not completely, there's just not remotely enough evidence to convince me it's even worthy of being called a theory, even by your loose uncredible definition of a theory.  once you understand why you don't believe in all those other gods & beliefs, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours.

The jaded theme of this thread was that not a belief system debate. Although "supply side" was used in spoof and satire it was a call for soclialism. The left is always trying to paint Jesus as a socialist, as they are always trying to twist anything they possibly can to create the smoke and mirror affect they need. Jesus was anything but a socialist or capitalist, he was above such secular ideals. If you can't see that you are still blocking His message.

Yes of course, just the lefts, no one else ever twists Jesus or any other religion to fit their own agendas.

Faith is not tangible, it is a gift just the same. Some of the greatest minds in science are devout believers in God, and agree that the more they explored the depths of science the closer they have approached God. Faith is a gift, but as for them also a choice. We are not forced to accept it

some, yes there are some people who call themselves scientists that are devout to a particular deity.  Greatest minds? not so much, unless my and your opinion of greatest are greatly different.  how bout some examples?

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