re: Our Outdoors: Wetlands are key to Flood Prevention

2010-02-14 12:10:22

posted by: Allen. Always fun to read opinions on FB, and the resulting opinions that are brought out by the first opinion.

Let me just say a couple things on this topic (and before I go too far, let me also say that I grew up farming and have dedicated much of my education and professional career to water topics just so I ain't confused with a greenie or some other hybrid driving, latte drinking, whacko group).

Spring floods do indeed tend to "wash" the ag chems off of the land and into the rivers. There are a number of studies that document this, but farmnhunt is right it's typically not the roundup which is the problem as much as it is the fertilizers. Take a look around, anyone with a set of eyes can see the greening of the lakes as summer progresses. This isn't "natural" so much as it's largely due to the nitrogen and phosphorus added to them through farm practices. I have always stated that rather than angering farmers (and ranchers who feed by creeks) by pointing the finger at them for greening of the lakes through algal blooms, one should instead work with them to help them not waste money by fertilizing only their crops when they need it rather than blanketing the land with fertilizers when the crops can't use them.

As far as the argument of wetland loss leading to the recent uptick in flooding compared to an increase in precipitation? Tough question, I tend to think the evidence in eastern ND and DL strongly shows that flood problems have largely been the result of significantly more moisture on average over the past ~17 yrs, but nobody who knows a thing about water and flooding can discount the potential effect of wetland loss. That just isn't reasonable. The real question is to what degree the flooding would have been lessened if those wetlands were still in place and regrettably nobody can pinpoint that with any degree of certainty. Let's remember that the Otter Tail river comes through a portion of Minnesota which has substantially been drained over the years, the Bois de Sioux and Sheyenne, not nearly as much.

On the topic of wetland restoration for wildlife? I believe Congress identified it as a problem in the lower 48 states and passed laws strongly limiting the drainage of wetlands for some very good reasons. Not only was wildlife being decimated, but fools were developing wetlands for housing and the taxpayer was picking up the cost of their bad decisions. ND was just one of the last places to still have a good percentage of its wetlands left when the laws went into effect and it really upset land developers (that includes farmers who buy a $50/acre pond and wanted to convert it into $1500/acre cropland). So yes, farmers are getting depradation permits and we now have an early resident goose season, but that doesn't mean the geese are really so numerous. It just means we are siding with the farmer in helping to protect his investment. Farmers who bought their land (or inherited it) at any point from the late 1960s to now are simply enjoying the rebound of the ND resident Canada goose population from near extermination. I believe there are something like 7 identified subspecies of Canada geese (don't even get me started on splitters vs. lumpers in species ID'ing). Regardless, the big ones who were down to essentially one flock out by Kelly's Slough have really rebounded with all the WPA, Closed To Canada Goose areas, National Wildlife Refuges, and wetland preservation efforts. But one has to remember, Canada geese are just one of many wetland birds. There are a number of them that aren't doing so well right now, but I will let the DU, NDGF, and other groups who work with them talk about why they think that's the case. The return of the Canada geese population to ND though is an unqualified restoration effort. Even if you don't like them.

re: Our Outdoors: Wetlands are key to Flood Prevention

2010-01-23 15:42:44

posted by: killenyotes.      I have been reading comments on FB for a few years now. Never have I felt that I needed to put my two cents in until now. I'm going out on a limb by guessing you live in a city with no outdoors background whatsoever. Going out 4-5 weekends a year dressed head to toe with the latest gear does not count as having an outdoors background.
     Most chemicals are applied June and July and mostly in the form of Roundup. Roundup is nuetralized once it contacts soil at the light rates that it is applied or it is metabolized by the plants. As far as spring flooding goes where is your proof that there are elevated chemical levels in the Red River in the spring? Of all the flooding you are referring to I can think of only one flood event that did not occur because of spring runoff. Since 1993 we have been in a very wet cycle. When you refer to the flooding in the Red River Valley because of the draining of wetlands I feel sorry for you. I'm sure that you and your very smart friends will solve all the world's problems at Starbucks. I bet you also believe that in the 119 years that we have weather records for here that we can conclude that this is not simply a cycle but "GLOBAL WARMING". Forget the 10 million years before that. Of course, there was no lattes back then.
     If you had much knowledge of the Red River Valley you would know that it used to be a lake. That must have meant that the cave men carelessly drained all the wetlands into it and formed Lake Agassiz. Thank goodness someone like you stepped up to the plate and made them fill them back up so we could build in the bottom of it.
     If you had much knowledge of the Red River Valley then you would know that the majority of water that impacts the flooding of Fargo and Grand Forks comes from the Red River Valley, not the prairie pot-hole region. That water certainly keeps the water levels up for a longer period of time but it is not what makes it get to levels it does. Look at all the water that came down from the Sheyenne River. That was NEVER a concern for Dennis Walaker because it takes so long for it to dump in North of Fargo. Maybe somone knows for sure but I think the water level in Grand Forks was going down before the water from the Sheyenne even got there. I know Fargo's was. There are no wetlands where most of the immediate water comes from. If you listen to Dennis Walaker in the spring he says that 60% of Fargo's water comes from the Wild Rice and the other 40% comes from the Red River.  When we froze up in the fall of '08 we had just experienced the wettest fall on record. That meant a couple of things. One, the ground froze up not being able to hold another drop.  Two, farmers had just planted a record number of corn acres. Of those corn acres very few got worked under. That meant that many acres of land in the Red River Valley had waist high cornstalks to catch snow all winter. When that happened it spread the snow out over a more uniform level rather than 15 feet high on the South side of trees. When we got warm last March and it rained it melted the snow much faster than it normally does because the snow was spread out more even. Mother nature dictates what happens. Contrary to what your greenie buddies have told you........we don't and never will. We are in a wet cycle that could end next year or it will get even worse. We don't have control over that.
     Now for my favorite. You claim that we need to restore wetlands because you think we need more wildlife? Are you kidding me? The last I heard is that duck levels are at or near record levels. Farmers are inquiring how to get permits to shoot geese during the summer because there are so many that they are devastating crops. We have more whitetail deer than ever. Isn't two years ago the record number of deer licences ever issued? Pheasant numbers were steadily climbing until last winter's fury. Coyote numbers are getting to a point where we need to be concerned. Raccoon numbers are obscenely high too.
     My advice to you is to put down your latte, trade in your hybrid car, and get a job working for a farmer for a couple of years so you can get a taste of what goes on outside major city limits and go back and tell your greenie friends what you've learned.

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re: Our Outdoors: Wetlands are key to Flood Prevention

re: Our Outdoors: Wetlands are key to Flood Prevention