re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 18:02:03

posted by: Tim Sandstrom. Yes, skoal was definitely treated a little harshly for posting an article that came straight from the Boone & Crockett magazine. But we can still communicate our opinions in a straight-forward way. I'm not pointing fingers, everyone at a time or another has posted with poor choosing of words. I just want everyone to take a deep breath. you know, one of those step back and take a break breaths.

skoal,

Thanks for being a trooper with your response. You did the right thing and did so in a respectable manner.

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 17:54:43

posted by: mauserG33-40.

Tim Sandstrom Said:
This topic has been discussed over and over again. It is what it is. I will leave my comment at that.

Please folks, we can communicate without the little slams and creative wording that provokes outlashes.

You are right,I could careless how much lead based paint,tire wieghts,or anything else you want to put in your body. I didn't like the way skoalongcut was jumped on over and over for posting this article that got his attention and expressed his opinion.
Plus the fact that some folks who really could have used this meat that has less health risks than most meats you buy in a store.

Research or job security???

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 17:23:20

posted by: Tim Sandstrom. This topic has been discussed over and over again. It is what it is. I will leave my comment at that.

Please folks, we can communicate without the little slams and creative wording that provokes outlashes.

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 16:17:26

posted by: Starhunter.

"Anyone who is anti-lead, and has ever had their tires balanced, is a complete hypocrite."

And the connection is????

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 16:14:47

posted by: Starhunter.

Bobkat; Very well written, thank you for the facts!

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 16:14:41

posted by: ggenthusiast. Anyone who is anti-lead, and has ever had their tires balanced, is a complete hypocrite.

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 16:08:36

posted by: Starhunter. Research involves reading more than a magazine article. The fact that most hunters are not conservationists amazes me.

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 09:10:09

posted by: mauserG33-40. Dr bobcat

I am sure every article written about Dr. Cornantzer is tottally untrue no matter how many have been written.

The people that would have recieved the deer meat are very greatfull to him no matter how much they needed the food.

How much of a decrease in deaths and sickness has there been after throwing out the deer meat, and after Dr. Cornantzer study and reasurch?

Are you sure this is from a horse's mouth or....

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 08:27:34

posted by: mauserG33-40.

"Seriously, - and I won't even send you a bill for that advice!
I'm out of here.................."

That is about what the advice is worth.

Goodby

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

2009-07-06 08:14:03

posted by: bobkat. For any of you who really want to know what the real story is, here goes, and it'll be my last comment.
Bill won't comment in websites because he doesn't want to get in silly arguments with people who will believe what they want to believe anyway. He may kill me for posting this, but here goes. "The Rest Of The Story!"
He was at the Hawk conference, the Peregrine fund or whatever it is called, because he is a falconer, and I think his dad was before him. He got "joed" into being president on one of those "I-nominate-Bill-for-President-all-in-favor-say-aye-you-are president-now-Bill!    He says he didn't want it, and I believe him. He's far too busy for the administration of some organization because he is so darned good at what he does! If you don't believe it, try to get an appointment with him!   And that's just his work, and doesn't count time spent producing ND habitat and hyunting/fishing, falconry (a full time job in itself,,,,) Back to the story.....
At the conference he was impressed by X-Rays presented by some biologist of dead deer killed by modern high speed bullets.   He thought "Wow, those things really explode and leave a lot of bits of lead in the carcass!"   Bullets nowadays are not your Grandfather's 30 - 30 and 45-70 bullets!   That we can all agree on!
When he got home he decided to follow up on it and find out if those bits of lead were left in the meat we all eat. So he and a Radiologist friend thought "where do we get a large enough sample of randomly pulled packages of meat to see if there is lead in them and be truly as prepresentative of gunshot killed ground venison as possible?"   (Skoal's 'epidemiologist' would approve, even though he and his rah rah B & C friends totally misunderstand what an epidemiologist is or does) ! )
They went to the food pantry (who have literally thousands of packs of ground venison) and at their own time and expense X-Rayed and fluro'd 100 packages.   Much to their surprise they found bits of metal in over 50! They were expectin a little bit of metal, but never that amount!   So they extraced representative bits of metal and found, not surprisingly, guilding metal from the jackets and not surprisingly a LOT of Lead fragments!   This work can be verified by an other group's own radiologists or chemists, or whatever.....So don't insult our collective intelligence and say the results were "cooked!" They were NOT!
So, this is what he did! Nothing more, nothing less! End of staory as far as Dr. Cornantzer!      The public health department took it from there and ran with it with blood levels and all that. (I still don't fully understand the blood level results, thing??)   But from here on the controversy has NOTHING to do with Bill! His conclusions are simply "Representative samples of meat from shot game in a ND Food Pantry were found to contain lead fragments in a little over 50%of the 100 samples." Nothing more, nothing less...
It is important to note that Bill's results have been CONFIRMED and VINDICATED in EVERY study done in other states since then! The Minnesota DNR, and elsewhere. Do your homework while you are chawing down your skoal!   Everyone on this web site should know that, assuming they can read.....
BUT, ever since then, Bill has been vilified in every hunting magazine (Sports Afield, now the B & C Rag, etc.) and by every hunting organization like the NRA, ad nauseum, and by several overweight talk show hosts! And its obviousl that NONE of these magazines have done their homework or even remotely understand what Bill and his radiologist fiend have done. They did a tremendous amount of hard work on their own time and expense and the CRAP from all these so called "hunters " and "conservationists" still won't stop, and probably never will!!!!
I've personally written the NRA and told them that if this continues I'm going to be like George HW Bush and demand my life membership back! Also wrote to Outdoor Life magazine and others, telling them to do their homeork and get their facts correct for a change before passing on a lot of totally untrue stuff and allegations!
NO ONE, at least no one connected to Bill (or myselft) is out to stop hunting with lead bullets, even though it might be a good idea for a couple of reasons!
1) As I mentioned in a previous post, everyone on FBO is a biologist, football manager, accountant, economist, global warming climatologist and Everyone knows all the answers! OK, then. From your posts, I assume all of you also have advanced degrees in human embryology and teratology and therfore from your posts you all must possess documented solid medical references proving that IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO FEED HEAVY METALS TO PREGNANT WOMEN AND DEVELOPING CHILDREN now that we know we are doing it and when there is a simple alternative!   In case you all have misplaced your voluminous references, then just give me the name of ONE Obstetrician and/or ONE Pediatrician that thinks that this is a good idea! As you are aware, the Food pantry's clients have a very high percentage of pregnant mothers and kids who come to collect and consume all that meat, some of which contains heavy metals. Whether it hurts fetusus or developing kids, no one knows but now that we know that game shot with modern high speed expanding bullets contain significant amounts of lead is the food pantry going to continue to give it away???  Both for health and legal reasons??? I think not, but then 3X, our local ginius in all subjects keeps saying I have no scientific background!! Sorry I'm so stupid 3X but at least I try....
2) Yes, the thing started because of concerns of lead in gut piles and unrecovered game in the California Condor's reintroduction areas! (Like it or not the science on poisoning them by this lead is solid, despite what Rush and the NRA and other organizations say!~ - Deal with it! Denial is de river in Egypt! Fighting legitimate research only makes hunters look like anti converstionalist me, me, goons! )     Do we have the "RIGHT" to poison other species while hunting, now that we know we are doing it and now that there are such other simple (now as cheap) alternatives?    IMO, we do not, but that's another thread you "ethicists" can kick around! I assume you have advanced degrees in ethics, too.

So criticise his and other's research on a thoughtful scientific basis if you want. Please do! That's encouraged and desirable in any field of scientific enquiry.    But PLEASE, no more personal attacks or character assasinations on an intelligent hard working, taxpaying, all American, well meaning researcher, simply becasue you may not like what he happened to turn up!    If that isn't the classical case of "Killing the Messenger" then I don't know what...... Ironically he got going with this research BECAUSE of his love of the outdoors and all of his outdoor activities fishing/huntin/scubadiving/falconing, etc. all over the world. And this is how he gets thanked for it!   Yuk!

Personally I think the research he did was pretty darned good, being careful to set it up so that his results could be verified by any critical group of other researchers, the whole project could be repeated and verified or not, was statistically VERY significant (for your epidemiologist/statistician) etc. In short, a very well done, well designed verifiable tidbit (and verified elsewhere many times) scientific research!     Could any of you "bar school scientists" out there do the same?????   I couldn't but I assume everybody else on BBO could easily do it!
Instead of 'thanks for the info - I never thought of that', he gets his reputation blackened, bad mouthed, and discredited as much as humanly possible! (3X continues this crap by still accusing him of making money from it via Barnes bullets!!??!! - GOOD GRIEF!)   3X, in my medical opinion you need to see a doctor, not a Dematologist or Obstetrician though - perhaps a psychiatrist! Seriously, - and I won't even send you a bill for that advice!
I'm out of here..................
So if any onf you pahhen to run across more bad mouthing of Dr. Cornantzer, now you have it straight from the horse's mouth to straighten them out. Please do!   (Maybe I believe in the tooth fairy, too)

Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine Recent Comments

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine

re: Article from Fair Chase: Boone and Crockett magazine