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Roger's Lastest

by , Posted to on 10/16/2010 08:04 AM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 06/03/2007
Location: ND
Here is the lastest Roger email I got

Fellow Hunter:

 

The High Fence Canned Hunt crowd argue that passing Measure 2 will give Radial Animal Rights groups a win that will lead to a ban on all hunting.

 

How would a ban on hunting be enacted into law?

 

Radical Animal Rights activists would have to convince the North Dakota House and Senate to pass a bill that banned hunting, and then they would have to convince the governor to sign the bill into law.

 

Do you think North Dakota farmers would allow a ban on hunting to open the door to uncontrolled of deer that destroyed their crops?

 

Failing in the Legislature, Radical Animal Rights activists could circulate a petition to place a law banning hunting on the ballot for a vote.

 

Do you think North Dakota voters would pass the ban? Or even sign the petition?

 

The “first step” toward a total ban on all hunting is bogus when you consider that in 2000, North Dakota voters passed an initiated measure that added Article 11, Section 27 to the state constitution. Section 27 protects hunting forever. The measure, placed on the ballot by the Legislature, passed 206,443 to 61,531.

 

Section 27 states that, “Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good.”

 

It is insane to argue that Measure 2 is a step toward banning all hunting when the state constitution prohibits any law that bans hunting. That fact has not stopped the High Fence Shooting Gallery Operators and their Out-of-State financiers from spreading the propaganda that Measure 2 is a step toward a total ban on all hunting.

 

As to the argument that Measure 2 bans a form of hunting, shooting a hand raised, hand fed deer inside an escape proof pasture isn’t hunting; it’s more like taking a gun to a Zoo. The hunt is over the moment the buck is born and the owner tags it with a legally required ear tag.

 

Out-of-State High Fence Shooting Gallery Operators are trying to buy our election. They plan to spend $170,000.00 to defeat Measure 2. If you value hunting, if you value our Hunting Heritage, donate to the Measure 2 campaign. Get a friend or two to donate.

 

Stop the sale of our hunting heritage to Out-Of-State Interests.

 

VOTE YES ON MEASURE 2.

 

Please complete the form at the bottom and mail your donation to:

 

North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase

223 Ashlee Avenue

Bismarck, North Dakota 58504

 

Make checks payable to North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase.

 

If you want to pay by credit card, please call 701-751-0882 during business hours, including weekends.

 

Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 08:30 AM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/24/2008
Location: Mo
He may be needing the money for lawery fees.
 
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 08:56 AM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/12/2009
Location: nd
Once again The sponsors are playing their message in a manner no one can question what they claim  thru these mass emailings, yet will not come on these sites and debate the issue or answer questions. They are scared to as they know what the answers to actual questions will do to their measure and their claims. Anyone that does not see this by now is simply to biased to.

What Roger does not tell people is that Article 11 Sec. 27 does not prevent groups like HSUS from regulating or banning certain types of hunting here in ND, it merely is designed to prevent the"hertitage" from being taken away completely. If there was an attempt to ban morning dove hunting, hunting predators with dogs, trapping, ect......these things can all be legaly taken away here in ND despite the wordng of Art 11 Sec 27 0f our constitution. How do you think the vote would go if some group were to start an initiated measure to ban trapping and used the same tactics of slanted pictures, videos, emotional disingenuous rhetoric?  

But hey that's probably alright, because somebody may not trap and it doesn't really affect them so don;t worry about small groups using these HSUS type tactics to regulate what you as an individual must take from the experience to call it hunting or to even pursue the experience based on their ethical veiw points, we have people like the group NDH for FC protecting us.

Oh hey I just thought of something, if Article 11 Sec 27 prevents hunting from being taken away here in ND as Roger claims isn;t this group NDH for FC arguement that HFH gives groups like HSUS the material they need to ban hunting a load of Bullshit?
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 09:16 AM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND

And you guys continue to insist incorrectly that canned shooting does not tarnish or harm the image and thus the potential of loss of fair chase hunting! Go figure!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 09:18 AM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/28/2007
Location: ND
what groups like HSUS do is support groups like FC from afar and once groups like FC do their initial dirty work for them, you know the softening of the resistance, they will then start grinding away at the rights of North Dakotans to do things like trap, bait, use trail cams, bow hunting, etc. 
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 09:34 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/05/2010
Location: nd
eyexer Said:
what groups like HSUS do is support groups like FC from afar and once groups like FC do their initial dirty work for them, you know the softening of the resistance, they will then start grinding away at the rights of North Dakotans to do things like trap, bait, use trail cams, bow hunting, etc. 


Why do you have shutterfly on your posts. Can anyone advertise for free? Whats up with that?
Wonderful Reagan quote that says it like it is! "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 09:46 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
And eye, hf SHOOTING are grinding away at my rights by undermining the image of hunting in the non hunters eye! These people are a vast majority of voters and while you and others keep wanting to make this a local issue. It really plays out more on a national level. One cannot defend HF shooting to the non hunting folks and we face a far greater risk of hunting period being banned or severely controlled via Washington than locally.

Allowing shooting arenas to operate under the banner of hunting does not allow for fair chase hunting to be a separate issue. Leaving canned shooting as it is in ND allows for all forums of hunting to be at greater risk of being taken away by a judge. For all who profess to be hunters and advocates of hunting, to ignore this tells me that you either are naive to the world outside of ND, or you have a connection to one of these operations.

That is the message that Kaseman is stating, not the BS that pber, and gst are attempting to spin it at.

So if the good people both hunters and non hunters of ND pass this measure it will lower the risk of all hunting being legislated or adjudicated away from us no matter what gst or pber want to claim.
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:14 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/24/2008
Location: Mo
Ron your Pinocchio Syndrome is acting up again!!

http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/anti_hunter_quotes.shtml
 
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:29 AM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
No mauser that belongs to you plain and simple! polling done by leading outdoor magazine confirm what I have said. Nothing in your rhetoric backs up any support for canned shooting in the majority period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a single poll done has shown support for it, none,nadda, zip,zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MT last state to have this on a ballot also included the farmed elk operations and it still passed.
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:37 AM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/28/2007
Location: ND
Hardwaterman Said:
No mauser that belongs to you plain and simple! polling done by leading outdoor magazine confirm what I have said. Nothing in your rhetoric backs up any support for canned shooting in the majority period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a single poll done has shown support for it, none,nadda, zip,zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MT last state to have this on a ballot also included the farmed elk operations and it still passed.
and you have links to these polls I'm assuming.

Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:42 AM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/19/2008
Location: ND
Ron,

The last state and ONLY state ever to have this as an initiated measure never included "farmed" elk operations, as elk in Montana were not in the livestock section of the century code.  They were considered alternative livestock.  The measure there was worded different, and you have to remember the timing of the measure there.  The organization in Montana to ban it was called MADCOW.  Their scare tactics and propaganda focused on disease at a time when mad cow disease was in the news and the public were very worried about eating contaminated meat. 

In fact I don't even see farmed elk listed in the wording of our measure!!  But for some reason in SB 2254 when it went before the legislators, the wording stated farmed elk.  Go figure. 
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:52 AM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/24/2008
Location: Mo
Ron is this one of the polls you were refering to???  It is leaked right to the FC web site?  Ron who is paying for the FC eeb site??

http://www.humanesociety.org/about/depa ... tives.html

North Dakota: YES! on Measure 2

North Dakota voters in November will decide whether to stop the trophy shooting of captive animals trapped behind fences – an inhumane and unsportsmanlike practice opposed by hunters and non-hunters alike. These ‘canned hunting’ operations offer wealthy customers the opportunity to kill tame, captive animals for guaranteed trophies.

For more information, visit NorthDakotaFairChase.com.

 

 
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 11:21 AM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/19/2008
Location: ND
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2010/10/16/never-implicate-yourself-when-incrimentalizing-others-freedoms-away/

Never Implicate Yourself When Incrementalizing Others’ Freedoms Away

October 16, 2010

Listen to this article. Powered by Odiogo.com

Sometimes you and I become so embroiled in the finer points on issues that we might become guilty of overlooking the obvious. We often hear about court cases in which a ruling that is handed down by a judge leaves us puzzled, angry or frustrated, questioning what the judge was thinking. The other day as I listened to a person speaking on liberty and how government control is destroying what many of us so cherish, I heard a statement that left me pondering. This person said that judges aren’t going to make rulings in which their adjudication limits their own powers. I guess it’s telltale that one has to think like a criminal to understand a criminal. As such, a judge would never openly declare his or her intent to gain power while abstaining from proper jurisprudence.


There are people in this country, in your state, your county, your town, your neighborhood and perhaps right next door, who want to rob you of your rights. Difficult to fathom isn’t it? Those of us who are independent, who live to be free, struggle to find understanding in anyone who works to destroy what God gave us, often perceive these actions by others as some kind of mental disorder. After all, who doesn’t like God’s gift of liberty?


Treasonous is a harsh description of the actions of such people but sometimes the ultimate goal is the same. I have often said that there are kings and pawns in this seditious act to bring down America in order to raise her back up as a socialistic-communistic country. Heavy hitters are behind the scenes orchestrating much of the effort, pushing the pawns around to carry out their game.


Part of that effort is the employment of what I have often heard referred to as “useful idiots”. These are those who can’t or won’t see the big picture but seem eager to pick up the sword and fight the small battles; these battles of course being part of the strategy of incrementalism.


How often do we hear someone exclaim, “There is no way the people would ever let the government take away my rights”? In most every case, that statement is true to a point and that is why those seeking your destruction have learned the fine art of incrementally chopping away, little by little, until one day, often completely unaware, you discover another freedom gone.


Only an idiot would admit while performing their act of incrementation what their ultimate goal is. By doing such you alert the sheep that danger might be present. What works well for incremental masters is the recruitment of useful idiots to do their bidding. These patsies sound quite sincere when they decry their innocence of participation in rights destruction; “we are doing this for our children”; “we are doing this to save our heritage”; “we are doing this for the good of everybody”.


Such is one case in North Dakota. One Roger Kaseman, heading up a Marxist organization called North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase, is trying to get a citizen’s initiative passed on Nov. 2 that would put an end to anyone in that state trying to raise elk and deer. He calls it an end to “high fence” hunting. He denies he’s out to steal away anyone’s property rights and insists on foisting his personal morals and ethics on the rest of us by law, all for the cause of protecting his hunting heritage.


In a recent email sent out to many of North Dakota hunters, Kaseman tries to make his case that his action will have nothing to do with animal rights/anti-hunting groups’ agendas to put an end to all hunting, trapping and fishing. He bases his declaration on North Dakota’s constitutional amendment that protects the citizen’s heritage of hunting, trapping and fishing. He also labors through what he perceives as the steps necessary anyone would have to take to put an abrupt end to these outdoor pursuits.


Is he that naive? Or perhaps he believes the rest of us are that stupid. Perhaps Mr. Kaseman should be reminded that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution acknowledges and guarantees the right of every citizen in America to keep and bear arms. I ask, has that right been incrementally whittled down where in some states the restrictions on gun ownership are so great, it is extremely difficult to buy and own one? But what about our constitutional amendment? It will never happen? Are we now to deliberately state that we’ll never have our guns taken away from us because our constitution says so?


Evidently that is what Roger Kaseman is trying to convince fellow hunters of.

It is insane to argue that Measure 2 is a step toward banning all hunting when the state constitution prohibits any law that bans hunting.


History shows us what the results are when, as citizens, we rest in the comfort of a constitution and become complacent in our duties to participate in a government of and by the people. One day we wake up and discover our precious rights have been taken away, often because a useful idiot played right into the hands of those orchestrating the big board.


Tom Remington


Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 11:28 AM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/27/2004
Location: ND
mauser.. you are pretty much an expert at everything? there has to be some ducks or turkeys or deer you can chase in missou right now... go have some fun. the people of nd will vote on Nov 2nd... good for us!
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 12:03 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/28/2002
Location: ND

A new revelation; I, as a city slicken land owner that hates high fence, will be voting no!

The one and only reason being, I think we as hunters need to respect the wishes of the land owners that own the majority of the land in North Dakota; the farmers and ranchers.

The major farm organizations have spoken and I feel I need to respect their wishes!

Crap!!  I retract all my previous arguments and statements! 

Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 12:58 PM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/21/2005
Location: ND
Hardwaterman Said:
No mauser that belongs to you plain and simple! polling done by leading outdoor magazine confirm what I have said. Nothing in your rhetoric backs up any support for canned shooting in the majority period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a single poll done has shown support for it, none,nadda, zip,zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MT last state to have this on a ballot also included the farmed elk operations and it still passed.
If what you say is true didn't a Animal welfare group stop the bear hunting season in I believe Delaware

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 1:31 PM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/21/2005
Location: ND
pber Said:
Ron,

The last state and ONLY state ever to have this as an initiated measure never included "farmed" elk operations, as elk in Montana were not in the livestock section of the century code.  They were considered alternative livestock. 


The USDA classifies them as non-traditional livestock,the same as emu's,dogs goats and exotic birds. Fact that you cannot sell dogs cats aviaons, to a petshop if you have more than a combination of 3 or more breeding stock with out being licensed by USDA.- USDA/APHIS Licensing clearly states that you can be fined up to 2500.00 per violation.  Roger is doing nothing more than looking for ways to continue with his mission of banning hunting and or the livelyhood of producers.

Roger doesn't have the ability nor the finances to compete with the non traditional livestock producer He and his goons are going after not only hunting but property rights issues. A prime example is the eucanatia(sic) plant that the indians used for medicine everybody went out and picked them so they passd a law so you can't do that anymore.
 Has anyone in ND had any captive herd that tested positive for wasting away diesease. there has been more cases of anthrax where total cattle herds have been distroyed
In ND it is only a veternarian that can give a rabies vaccination wouldn't it make more since to have the vaccine avaiable for 78 cents and let everyone vaccinate their own farm dogs instead of spending $12.00 to have a vet do it after all you can buy the vaccine for your dog at a feed supply store for about 5 bucks. How many dogs do you think are vaccinated that are on a farm what about all the farm cats and the spread of lepto  AThe farm dogs are more exposed to rabies from skunks than the city animals More people in the USA get rabies from horses than all other animals combined. and it happens when they put the bit in the mouth and wipe their nose or mouth


Look at the big picture it is all about control if you do NOT think so then why did all of the horse slaughter plants get shut down

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 1:40 PM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/12/2009
Location: nd
Hardwaterman Said:

And you guys continue to insist incorrectly that canned shooting does not tarnish or harm the image and thus the potential of loss of fair chase hunting! Go figure!!

Ron please point out exactly where I have insisted what you claim. Then explain how the opening of the door to groups like HSUS to influence how people veiw all forms of hunting thru the communications that have been admited to happening with NDH for FC will not lead to forms of hunting being banned here in the state because of our Constitutional amendment, but HF will lead to what he claims this amendment prevents?

Hardwaterman Said:
And eye, hf SHOOTING are grinding away at my rights by undermining the image of hunting in the non hunters eye! These people are a vast majority of voters and while you and others keep wanting to make this a local issue. It really plays out more on a national level. One cannot defend HF shooting to the non hunting folks and we face a far greater risk of hunting period being banned or severely controlled via Washington than locally.

.
So are you now claiming that if HF is not stopped at the state level there will be a Federal assualt to end hunting here in ND? What groups do you think would lead the attempt to do this? Perhaps HSUS??  Are you insinuateing if this measure passes that we no longer will deal with anything like that?



Hardwaterman Said:
 
That is the message that Kaseman is stating, not the BS that pber, and gst are attempting to spin it at.

Given the other claims you have made regarding this measure that have proven out to be incorrect, perhaps you should let Mr. Kaseman explain his own message himself. But you see the sponsors unwillingness to come on these sites and discuss this issue keeps any voters from actually having any basis to form an opinion what the message truly is. And the sponsors know this.
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 1:57 PM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/12/2009
Location: nd
Starhunter Said:

A new revelation; I, as a city slicken land owner that hates high fence, will be voting no!

The one and only reason being, I think we as hunters need to respect the wishes of the land owners that own the majority of the land in North Dakota; the farmers and ranchers.

The major farm organizations have spoken and I feel I need to respect their wishes!

Crap!!  I retract all my previous arguments and statements! 

Starhunter, there are any number of reasons one can choose based on their own beliefs to oppose this measure. Glad you found one!

 .
Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 9:20 PM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/22/2007
Location: ND
Starhunter Said:

A new revelation; I, as a city slicken land owner that hates high fence, will be voting no!

The one and only reason being, I think we as hunters need to respect the wishes of the land owners that own the majority of the land in North Dakota; the farmers and ranchers.

The major farm organizations have spoken and I feel I need to respect their wishes!

Crap!!  I retract all my previous arguments and statements! 

As a rancher i must also vote NO..
this has everything to do with my private property rights and little to do with weather i dislike fenced shooting.
Shawn


Re: Roger's Lastest
by on 10/16/2010 10:18 PM | Reply #20 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
rameboy I have no issue with you seeing it as a property rights issue, I hope come Jan you support me and other landowners to exercise our rights to sell our property to whomever we decide as well. Otherwise your claim is bogus!
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Posted By:
Posted On: 10/16/2010 08:04 AM
1546 Views, 31 Comments

Tags: hunting, measure, roger, lastest, ban, fence, rights, hunt, argue, fellow
More Tags: North Dakota, Animal Rights, Bismarck, USD, law banning, North Dakota House, Senate, Radical Animal Rights, Article, 701-751-0882, Governor,
Region: North Dakota

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