Point Restriction on Deer

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330oldsmobile
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Point Restriction on Deer

As the opening weekend of deer season is coming to an end i have seen a lot of people that just want to be done hunting and shooting anything with antlers which really bugs me especially when the same people do this year after year and then complain they never see any big bucks. I doubt that it will happen in ND anytime soon but the thought of putting point restriction on tags might help grow bigger deer as well as help out with the low population of deer we are experiencing. I was just wondering what other people thought about this since i pass lots of bucks already this weekend up to a smaller 5x5 but never know when they cross the road the guys that drive around and road hunt won't shoot them.

huntemup
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You have got to be kidding. Shoot whatever deer you want and be happy with it.  Let others shoot what they want.

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SHEDZ
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Alot of the city folk dont have the time or money to spend days looking for deer. So they shoot the first deer they see.(not saying nothing bad about city folk) Heard many people say that over the years. If i could get a damn tag i would hunt 16.5 days.

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fishfinder97
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Coming from a guy who hunts for meat and to enjoy a great pastime i love let everyone shoot what they want. Its in the eye of the beholder

 "If you're too busy to Hunt and catch Fish, then you're too busy"

" The greatest feeling in life is doing what others say you can't"

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doublea
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You can't eat the horns! I think the vast majority of folks hunt deer because they want the meat for the table and the smaller, younger bucks just seem to taste better.

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BowHunter1527
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I totally disagree with you. Again you see that people here  think you need to shoot a huge deer. A trophy is what ever you want it to be, this can change day by day, hunt by hunt depending on the circumstances. Some people prefer to hunt just for the fun of sport and others like to fill the freezer. While others prefer to trophy hunt. The bottom line is as long as its ethical it who cares.

"You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the Grim Reaper."

I.M.predator
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I agree with BH1527.  Everyone has their own reasons for hunting and have their own expectations and levels of experience.  When the've pulled the trigger they've chosen their trophy and as long as they are happy I'd say they had a successful hunt. 

With that said, I say let them shoot the first deer that comes along so we can get the rif raff out of the way.  When it comes to hunting, I've never been a fan of large crowds. 

theSting
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No way on antler restrictions. Hunting has become to caught up with "score". Sick of it.

Go hunt, be happy with what you have and what you get.

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I.M.predator Said:

With that said, I say let them shoot the first deer that comes along so we can get the rif raff out of the way.  When it comes to hunting, I've never been a fan of large crowds. 

 

Thats one reason why bowhunting is so much better, we dont have large crowds.

"You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the Grim Reaper."

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So when someone shoots a 4x4 with broken brow tines they just leave them in the field to rot instead of getting a fine? Sounds like a good plan

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bigoats
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I dont think we need to make  a legal matter out of it, instead i think we just need to use better common sense. I believe that to many people shoot to young of Bucks. Just because you have a buck tag doesnt mean you should fill it by all means. Its a privelage to most to get a buck tag and when you have one dont you want the best possible chances to get a big buck. By killing deer that are two maybe three years old your taking your chances greatly down. I would rather make deer tag soup than kill a young buck. I am not a trophy hunter in any way being the biggest buck i have killed went just over 160. I just feel we should let the younger deer live and if you dont get the one your after this year, well then you will be that much more pumped up for next year to roll around, the buck you were after will be bigger and so will the rest of the deer.

I guess: It’s a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
                                                                                                     "Shakespeare"

theSting
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Who's decision does that come down to though?

People enjoy hunting for numerous reasons. A "buck" tag doesn't mean they are out there to shoot something with huge horns. It means they are looking for a male deer. The hunter should be the one making the call on what he or she chooses to shoot. If a person hunts hard for a day or two and then wants to fill up the freezer, that should remain that persons choice.

Secondly, there are a lot of people out there that simply don't care about shooting a big buck. I'm sure like all of us its in the back of their minds but when it comes down to it they are just as happy with an animal on the ground and tagged as a "trophy" buck.

bigoats Said:
I dont think we need to make  a legal matter out of it, instead i think we just need to use better common sense. I believe that to many people shoot to young of Bucks. Just because you have a buck tag doesnt mean you should fill it by all means. Its a privelage to most to get a buck tag and when you have one dont you want the best possible chances to get a big buck. By killing deer that are two maybe three years old your taking your chances greatly down. I would rather make deer tag soup than kill a young buck. I am not a trophy hunter in any way being the biggest buck i have killed went just over 160. I just feel we should let the younger deer live and if you dont get the one your after this year, well then you will be that much more pumped up for next year to roll around, the buck you were after will be bigger and so will the rest of the deer.
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Are you a "trophy" hunter or a meat hunter?  When it comes down to getting only 1 tag per person, a male deer will provide more meat than most does.

I'm with the rest of the crowd that says shoot what you want as long as your tag says you can!

Sometimes what is going through your head, should stay in your head!

Only crooked politicians fear armed citizens.

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ARROW EM'
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To each their own. To me, last time I checked, I am not starving to death so if I don't "fill" the freezer, that is ok with me. Beef will be in grocery stores, hell, you can even go to the meat locker and buy venison these days. I hunt for the thrill of the hunt and the most mature animal I am able. This does not mean that I want someone or some law out there telling me what I can and cannot do. We have enough government involvement in the outdoors, I don't want to see any more. I hunt for the best animal I can find and that is MY choice. Would I like to see some age class in the deer herd and see what each animals potential is? Sure. Do I and will I hunt for animals with large headgear? You bet your ass I do and will. This however does not mean that I can tell some new youth hunter or any hunter for that matter what he can or cannot shoot. If something like this came to legislation, it is possible I would be in favor of, but only if the majority agreed.

Double Lung em'

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huntemup Said:
You have got to be kidding. Shoot whatever deer you want and be happy with it.  Let others shoot what they want.

I agree with this message.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Sum1
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How bout slot limits?

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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rbhavebeenfishin
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proven fact states that gun season falls during rut have smaller bucks. theres already to many restrictions in this country. we dont need anymore

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Meelosh
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 Why do people insist on making others hunt "their way"? Live and let live folks. 

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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some of us just want to eat

Stay thirsty my friends

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BowHunter1527 Said:

 
Thats one reason why bowhunting is so much better, we dont have large crowds.

330oldsmobile
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I totally get hunting for meat which is what i do also but shooting large deer is a bonus. I agree that the trophy is in the eye of the beholder but when they shoot these deer and then complain year after year about not ever shooting big deer is what i don't get when they made the decision to shoot the 1 1/2 year old deer on a yearly basis. I dont want to take away from their hunting right but thot that it might help out populations to let the next generation hunt the same way we have. And i agree that some youth hunters might be happy with a small buck when i was 11 i shot a small 4x4 and was thrilled with it and im still young (17) and have not shot another buck since but then again i am more of a trophy hunter and if i dont shoot one i shoot a doe to fill the freezer when it gets to the end of the bow season

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huntemup Said:
You have got to be kidding. Shoot whatever deer you want and be happy with it.  Let others shoot what they want.

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Good to see there are some that hunt for the meat and realize that hunting can be funner if you take it with a grain of salt .  Shoot  what you want to shoot in my opinion.       Not everyone can afford the time or money to wait out for a big buck , And to  the guys saying don't shoot small bucks wait for a big buck ,,,,,    If everyone only shot big bucks what would we have left ?     For the record,  I usually shoot what ever buck on the farm that I don't want around.     I usually shoot one with a scrubby looking rack , Especially if I see him chasing does.  Oh thats right , Culling scrub bucks doesn't work. 

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

greatwhitefishe
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 Hunting is about having fun and getting into the outdoors. Of course everyone wants a big buck, but not everyone is going to get one. I really hope you have a kid and teach him/her that hunting is about shooting big bucks only. So when he or she goes without a deer for multiple years, because the deer is not up to your standards they quit hunting... Good job! If you want bigger bucks start a game farm.

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FWIW, small bucks become large bucks.  Back in the day o'plenty, I put a doe in the freezer and generally ate the buck tag.  Had a ground shrinkage issue in '09; still my personal best and great thrill.  Again, IMHO.

 Nuke the Whales

Big Buck
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Most of the hunter wantabes usually shoot there big forkhorn out the window of the pickup becuase there to lazy to put the time in to kill a mature buck. They could just as well go buy some pork and save the deer

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Cowbell
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So let me get this straight. You are a 17 year old kid who has shot exactly one buck in his life, and now you want to revamp the system.
Yeah, this is going to end well.

shooter08
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Sounds like 330 Oldsmobile has been watching too many hunting shows and reading too many magazines. Don't forget the reason for hunting is for the enjoyment of the outdoors, fun with family and friends, and thrill of the hunt. Thank the Lord most of us don't have to hunt to survive like the old days. I like the idea of trophy hunting for myself, but not at the expense of the freedoms of others. To each their own. You want to create your own rules about trophy hunting? Buy up some acres, plant food plots, get your gratis, and try to manage a herd on your own dime and labors. Of course with land prices thats pretty much impossible...........

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I don't see why everyone gets so hyped up about antler score. Do I go to the local buck show and check it all out?? Of course, It's always great to hear everyones stories and experiences they had over the season. I know i'm not the only 1 but I really like a big plump corn fed whitetail. I have seen some really heavy bodied fork bucks and small basket racks and that means a winter of real good eating. If someone pulls the trigger on a deer its what they want so congratulate them don't come down on them.

 "If you're too busy to Hunt and catch Fish, then you're too busy"

" The greatest feeling in life is doing what others say you can't"

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26 seasons of deer rifle hunting, some of them with 2 tags. I have never eaten a tag sandwich on any of my tags. With that being said I have had plenty of doe seasons, and plenty of fairly small buck seasons.

I have a few heads on the wall, I typically hunt within an hour or less of home, have a job that I can take the time whenever I need to, and have many farm/ranch friends that give me access to their land at almost all times. With that being said, not always are the big bucks around. I enjoy the hunt, the butchering, the meat, the jerky, the entire experience. I would hate for my kids to have to feel bad for not getting a big buck, or eating a tag sandwich because the ones they had opportunities with were to small.

Its like fishing in the boat, I have cleaned some fairly small fish, because the kids wanted to keep what they caught. Its the times you have with them that counts not the trophy that might end up on the wall.

There's a whole generation of Americans that have no idea about the truth of the Clintons, particularly Hillary 


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I had a long conversation about this the other night.  I see both sides of the argument and have feelings both ways.  ND has always been managed for opportunity rather than a trophy status state.  I doubt that will change any time soon.  I would rather shoot a trophy and buy some beef than shoot a young one for the table, but I also don't want to take opportunity away from others that pursue it for what it is(a time to spend outdoors with family and friends).  I can see a lot of problems with a point/tine limit with deer shot that ground shrink into a violation.  It also makes a trophy that much more rare and special.  Right now your best bet for a trophy is go to a trophy state as I doubt we are moving towards that way of management.

"Diligence is the mother of good luck."

"The constitution only gives people the right to pursue hapiness.  You have to catch it yourself."

"Well done is better than well said."

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

All by:  Benjamin Franklin.

"The solution to any problem - work, love, money, whatever - is to go fishing, and the bigger the problem, the longer the trip should be."

Author: John Gierach

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 It takes many things to create a "trophy" buck including, but not limited to:  Genetics, available food, and stress levels. Now put food and stress aside and you are left with genetics.  Not all bucks have the genes to produce incredible size antlers.  So, if all you can shoot are trophy bucks with the good genes, what you will eventually be left with are the small, inferior deer. Your scrub horned, basket racks, and such.  So if you take the largedominat bucks out of the equation,  the bucks produced from breeding will more than likely become smaller "non-shooter" bucks according to you. The way things are right now create that balance that is needed to create nice sized deer. So I say let em shoot what they want and you shoot what you want. Me well I'll take whatever comes along and put some meat on the table. 

"those who give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty, nor safety"
                                       - Ben Franklin

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I agree that not everybody hunts for the trophy and I'm perfectly fine with that.  Hell most of my family shoot the first deer they see.  I on the other hand love to hunt and just be out there.  I also have alot of vacation so I have more time to do so.  I have eaten tags but have also shot smaller deer to fill tags.  If the freezer is empty I'm gonna fill it and you can't always shoot the big one.   I think our state is one of the greatest states around and I really don't mind how they manage it.  Yes, it got overhunted a bit and we are now paying for it but thats ok too.  I don't have a tag this year and might be miserable but I believe it will help next year!

Hunt today like there may be no tomorrow!

Hardwaterman
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Been hunting not reading the forums. I do not have a tag this year. Nor did most of the people that gather together back home this past weekend. Two buck tags ad four doe tags among the group of 25+ that get together each fall on opening weekend.

Saturday night we gathered at the local bar, talked in great length of events and seasons and deer of the past. I sat around the table and marveled at the age range of people we had. Some in their 70's and others who where on their first gathering  just turned legal hunting age. We also talked of those that have left us be it moving away or passing away.

The thing is that this annual gathering is not about protein on the head of a deer, it is about good friends, family, and the love of being able to do something that we al enjoy.

Fog made our group a bunch of road hunters or should say road drivers, nobody wanted to even think of shooting anywhere Friday and Sat. The few walks that where undertaken all where ended as the fog moved back in after looking like it was lifting.

I would suggest putting some years under your belt and then rethink your view. Attitude and knowing what really is important comes with age and hopefully wisdom. Cousin had his 3 year old grandson along who took great pride in being able to dress in orange like BAPPA!

Friend had his nephew along on his first deer hunt, who did not shoot a deer during the youth season. His cousins who both did not get a license where upset that the road conditions and weather prevented them from joining the group on Saturday.

We also toasted two of our group who have passed this last year. The laughter, stories and fun they brought will be remembered and shared as we gather in coming years. I look forward to when my granddaughter can join us as well.

The point is that for most what they shoot is really secondary. Otherwise none of those tagless people would want to travel simply to be amongst friends now would they?

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Shooting small bucks does no good for anyone. Let the little guys grow. If you are worried about having venison in the freezer then just get a doe tag.  I would take deer tag soup every time over killing a young deer. Norht Dakota has potential to have a very nice population of big mature bucks if everyone would do there part. I have no problem with youth hunters and the younger generation shooting younger bucks, its great to see them out enjoying the outdoors and the sport of deer hunting. I just feel that if you have hunted for 5, 10, 20 years why you would ever kill a small buck. I dont want any goverment regulations on it but do wish people would pass on smaller bucks, and in the end if you dont harvest a deer that year big deal, if you need venison that bad go down to the local butcher shop and buy some. You guys really feel good for people when they bring in a 2 yr. old 3 by 3 i just dont understand. Hope that people one day realize, its not mandatory to fill your tag, and you dont have to have venison in the freezer every year. LET THE LITTLE ONES GROW its better for everyone in the long run.

I guess: It’s a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
                                                                                                     "Shakespeare"

Headhunter
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Geothermal said what do you have if everyone only hunted big bucks etc etc.  Well you'd have a better population of adult deer with big racks every year, Why?  cause if everyone held out for a "big one"  less deer would be killed, its simple.  If everyone shoots a buck to "fill a tag",  ,,, more total bucks are killed which wrecks age structure of the deer herd.

  Being picky, means tag soup for some, big horns for a few others.  Less little bucks killed, is more big bucks for next year and the year after, Win/Win for all.  I can't tell somebody what to shoot of course,  but the more tag soup eaten by all of us, the more trophy deer for all of us for the future. Simple.

Most ND bucks have good genetics and if allowed to mature, will have big antlers. Age is the first requirement for a "trophy", second to nothing. Sure some deer will never be superbucks, but most can be dam good if nobody rolls them before potential is reached.  I will take our genetics over Kansas or Texas any day.  Our deer can put on 30 inches of antler in only one year.  The only way we can regulate "antler size" is reduce number of tags given out, as you can't tell someone what to shoot. Most does are bread by immature bucks in my area, as thats about all we have,  so killing the big ones has nothing to do with good genetics becoming recessive due to "trophy hunting".  Our genetics are fantastic.

330oldsmobile
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Headhunter Said:
Geothermal said what do you have if everyone only hunted big bucks etc etc.  Well you'd have a better population of adult deer with big racks every year, Why?  cause if everyone held out for a "big one"  less deer would be killed, its simple.  If everyone shoots a buck to "fill a tag",  ,,, more total bucks are killed which wrecks age structure of the deer herd.

  Being picky, means tag soup for some, big horns for a few others.  Less little bucks killed, is more big bucks for next year and the year after, Win/Win for all.  I can't tell somebody what to shoot of course,  but the more tag soup eaten by all of us, the more trophy deer for all of us for the future. Simple.

Most ND bucks have good genetics and if allowed to mature, will have big antlers. Age is the first requirement for a "trophy", second to nothing. Sure some deer will never be superbucks, but most can be dam good if nobody rolls them before potential is reached.  I will take our genetics over Kansas or Texas any day.  Our deer can put on 30 inches of antler in only one year.  The only way we can regulate "antler size" is reduce number of tags given out, as you can't tell someone what to shoot. Most does are bread by immature bucks in my area, as thats about all we have,  so killing the big ones has nothing to do with good genetics becoming recessive due to "trophy hunting".  Our genetics are fantastic.

theSting
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Some people that get a buck tag don't care what the antlers look like. They don't care if the deer is mature or not.  Some people just want to hunt a buck for whatever reason. I don't see how one could say shooting small bucks does no good for anyone....some people just don't care. If a guy has hunted for 20 years and he still gets a thrill out of shooting a small buck or an immature buck, why take that away from him?

Its really not better for everyone, its better for the guys that are trying to do nothing but shoot a big mature deer, which is also completely acceptable. I fit into the latter category, but I've shot quite a few nice bucks over the years and just want to be able to continue shooting mature deer. Would I pass the shot on an immature deer if the hunt was quite memorable? Heck no, there are some things that the end result do not grasp.

And yes I feel great for people that bring in small bucks, does, fawns or whatever they have to show a picture of. If the guy doing the hunting and shooting is happy with what he has, why take anything away from him? Doesn't make sense to me.

bigoats Said:

Shooting small bucks does no good for anyone. Let the little guys grow. If you are worried about having venison in the freezer then just get a doe tag.  I would take deer tag soup every time over killing a young deer. Norht Dakota has potential to have a very nice population of big mature bucks if everyone would do there part. I have no problem with youth hunters and the younger generation shooting younger bucks, its great to see them out enjoying the outdoors and the sport of deer hunting. I just feel that if you have hunted for 5, 10, 20 years why you would ever kill a small buck. I dont want any goverment regulations on it but do wish people would pass on smaller bucks, and in the end if you dont harvest a deer that year big deal, if you need venison that bad go down to the local butcher shop and buy some. You guys really feel good for people when they bring in a 2 yr. old 3 by 3 i just dont understand. Hope that people one day realize, its not mandatory to fill your tag, and you dont have to have venison in the freezer every year. LET THE LITTLE ONES GROW its better for everyone in the long run.

theSting
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If you guys that are for antler restrictions based on the fact that you want bigger deer........forget about the antler restrictions and petition the Game and Fish to move the rifle season out of the rut.

It would create plenty of deer that get to grow up or continue to grow.

25gill
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 If you're gonna move the rifle season out of the rut you better also shut down bow season before the rut , instead of running it half the winter. Otherwise the big bucks you're so worried about will die from an arrow instead of a bullet.

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multi-species-angler
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I thought we already discussed how slot limits are a bad idea on this site.

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 Every year there are a lot of big bucks killed in the state. There are other options to increase your odds of success on a big buck. You can hunt harder and longer, saving your vacation (if you get it) for deer season), work harder at improving your landowner relations to get access to better land, increase your marksmanship abilities to be able to hit the big buck if you see him.  There is a lot you can do without restricting everyone else.

You can't aim a duck to death.

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Looks like HH's little brother joined the site.

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 If I had a buck tag and my area got a foot+ of snow on opening weekend, I would be happy with any buck.

jiggin4alivin
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I wish they would issue some "Any Legal Deer" permits, especially units with higher populations.  Then you could have the option to hunt for horns, and still shoot a doe for the freezer if you can't find a decent buck.

Headhunter
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Yes Any Legal Deer would be a good option for any unit.  You should be able to kill a doe on the last week if you couldn't find a good enough buck to kill.  There are always more bucks killed  than does every year so taking more does out would help balance the herd.  Yet another management took that is not utilized by the G/F.

Elvis 1,  I'm not telling anyone what to shoot,  thats your deal,  I'm just agreeing with all the advantages of letting little ones walk , theres lots of them

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Jiggin/HH--Hell yes.

 Nuke the Whales

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We already have "any deer" tags, they are called gratis.

So let me get this right, if you don't have any big deer on your hunting grounds, shooting the does is a good option?  Good grief, I am pretty sure some of those who like this idea have already come down hard and heavy on the NDGF for issuing too many doe tags. 

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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I think there should be a minimum of one spike antler. Just one, doesn't have to have a horn on the other side. I think that will help the herd. 

Big J

gst
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Joined: Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 9:41am

Better start a ballot measure to outlaw those unethical 500 yard running shots and start advocating for baiting so you have plenty of time to count points!!!

bobkat's picture
bobkat
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Joined: Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 12:00am

GST - you don't need to bait!  All you have to do is put up a DEER CROSSING sign and they'll file right past you!

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