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New Playground

by kdm , Posted to Fishing Buddy on 06/29/2009 10:07 PM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm

Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
Well I had planned for over two years to plant a 5 acre tree plot this spring and found out that it wasn't going to happen due to lack of equipment.  It felt like a swift groin kick and put me in a funk.  So, what does a die in the wool and depressed deer hunter do to relieve his pain and suffering over a lost tree plot????  He goes out and buys a 50 acre piece of barnes county sheyenne river valley.  Now I need to undo about 10 years of serious overgrazing and I have very little idea of how to go about doing that.  Does anyone out there have experience with grassland or pastureland reseeding.  I have done some googling, but in my book there is no substitute for being able to say "been there, done that".   There are two tree blocks about 40 yds across each and a line of brush going down the drainage of the draw, just to give an idea of what it looks like.  I essentially bought the whole draw.  There will be no cattle in this piece again, so long term planning is the game.  I have tried to get in touch with the NDSU animal and range folks, but so far have been unsuccessful.  Thanks in advance.

KDM 
Re: New Playground
by louieleatherneck on 06/29/2009 10:30 PM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
louieleatherneck
Joined: 11/27/2006
Location: ND
call the county agent for starters.
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/29/2009 10:37 PM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND

Louie, I tried that too, but have been unsuccessful so far.  I am sure they are running and gunning all summer.  Thanks for catching that one, I should have mentioned that.
Re: New Playground
by Hardwaterman on 06/29/2009 10:46 PM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Hardwaterman
Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
Try and identify the type of grasses you currently have. Native grasses will respond well simply from resting and moisture. Brom and others may need to be eradicated to allow more suitable grasses to return and grow.

We had some areas that where overrun with brom and June grass. We eventually did the Roundup and reseeding of the ground with native grasses. Check with the local FSA office on cost share programs. Our pasture now has a mix of tall and short native prairie type grasses. The Tall grass varieties thrive in moist conditions and moderate temps, the short grass will give you suitable forgae for grazing and wildlife in dry years.as well as in wet years.

Couple things to keep in mind as well is weed control like worm wood and thistle just to name a couple. Spraying of these is most affective in the fall, but thistle should be cut prior to it setting seed.
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: New Playground
by pigsticker on 06/29/2009 11:01 PM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
pigsticker
Joined: 05/04/2005
Location: ND
My dad had a few different areas of coulees where they were severely overgrazed. He made sure the fence between the neighbors side and his was good and let his side go to nature. It took about 10 years or so but it is amazing the difference of cover from our side of the fence to the neighbors who grazes it. It is like night and day, and even under the canopy of trees in the draws it is full of underbrush. Good foliage takes time to grow. Unfortunately it doesn't come back right away once the problem is removed. One area had only one horse on it and It was 40+ acres fenced (some creek bottom) and I swear  that just one horse held that land back in certain exposed areas. Now that the horse is gone the grasses are coming back thicker and some brush is starting to come in where I've never seen it before. You wouldn't think one animal could do that but I suppose it's possible especially in dry years.

Even natural prairie grasses are slow to come back but eventually they will. And when they do you will have an amazing game haven.

Congrats on your purchase.
You can't shoot a big one if you shoot a small one!
Re: New Playground
by hlt on 06/30/2009 07:51 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
hlt
Joined: 01/15/2006
Location: ND
Spray it with round up then go in and seed it to whatever type of grass you want and put a cover crop of somesort.

One Big Ass Mistake America !
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/30/2009 09:59 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
Thanks guys for the information.  I do have a few spots of leafy spurge that have flea beetles in them, but everything else has been mowed down by the cattle.  The edges are pretty steep.  I would guess about a 45 degree angle at the steepest.  I don't think I can get equipment in there so a broadcast method of seeding is about as good as I can get and then rake it in or something.  Pigsticker, I hope it doesn't take 10 years to come back.  At that rate I will have a golf course (which is what it looks like now) for 5+ years.  I might have to plant some forbes too.  I am hoping there is a seed blend of native plants that I can get from the soil conservation or FSA office.  Thanks again for the information.  It gives me a starting point.  I welcome any ideas or thoughts that may help. 
Re: New Playground
by elvis1 on 06/30/2009 10:32 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
elvis1
Joined: 10/11/2007
Location: ND
I believe a contributor to this site who goes by rngesci has a degree in range science.  Maybe he can help if he is watching.

US Navy 1988-1997US Navy 1988-1997
Re: New Playground
by ggenthusiast on 06/30/2009 12:09 PM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
ggenthusiast
Joined: 09/11/2002
Location: ND
you'd be surprised what will grow all its own.  Give it a year to rest, and you'll probably be surprised how resilient grass is.

I'm interested in the places between places.
Re: New Playground
by Auggie1415 on 06/30/2009 12:27 PM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Auggie1415
Joined: 09/13/2005
Location: ND
I would try a controlled burn.  My cousins out by Towner had a tractor go up on flames and set the pasture a blaze.  1 year later it looked better than they could remember.  Our soils are accustomed to fire and grazing. 
Hail the Bison!
You can always retake a class, but you can never retake a party!
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/30/2009 1:11 PM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
I don't think there is enough of anything to make a burn, but I might try that to clean up the dead trees.  The cattle were kind of tough on them with as little grass there was to eat.  The grass was grazed down to soil level and the only plants of any size are the trees and the spurge.  I hope you are right gg as I plan on "resting" it for years.  Maybe I will graze it every 4th year or so to clean it up a bit, but that is about it.  I guess I will wait and see.  I think I have buffalo grass, needle and thread grass, and a few others, but would like to find out for sure and then see what I can add to make it more productive for critters.  Erosion is another sizable issue I would like to tackle.  I already saw some slide areas that I don't know if I can stop yet.  Any suggestions for that would be most appreciated though I am still attempting to contact the experts for the county.  Thanks to all for the ideas.  Keep them coming.   
Re: New Playground
by rdaleman on 06/30/2009 1:15 PM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
rdaleman
Joined: 11/15/2003
Location: ND

 

I have a degree in Range Science and from your description of the property I would say the first thing I would try is fertilizing the area. Have the local Cenex etc. come in a do a soil test to determine which minerals you are lacking and then go with their recommendation. Trying to break up the existing vegetation is going to be tough not just because of the terrain but due to the costs associated with the venture i.e. machinery, seed, chemical, weed control etc. If you want to improve the area for deer I would suggest that you plant the more desirable browse type species native to the area.
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/30/2009 2:02 PM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
Rd, a soil test, now there is something I didn't think of for a pasture.  I think about that for food plots, but not this.  Great idea.  I am very knowledgeable about talking fertilizer at the bar, however I am somewhat limited in my knowledge of its real life applications.  The soil test will probably tell me what I need to use, but if you have a guess as to what I may need, I would appreciate your thoughts.  Thanks 
Re: New Playground
by rdaleman on 06/30/2009 2:18 PM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
rdaleman
Joined: 11/15/2003
Location: ND

KDM if I had to guess I would say the basics which is Nitrogen Phosuphrous and Potassum however the soil test will tell you which one of the three you are lacking that would help increase the production of the area. Also the soils themselves maybe your limiting factor.  If you can get your hands on the county soil survey you can find out your soil types from there if not try this link http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/ You may have to do some downloading to get to your area but if you know the Legal discription it may go faster,
Re: New Playground
by Tim Sandstrom on 06/30/2009 2:19 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Tim Sandstrom
Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
I too was going to suggest a soil sample but rdaleman beat me to it.

Similar to pigsticker, my dad also had a pasture he shut off from cattle grazing.  Not a big pasture but it is amazing how growth comes back once cattle are gone.  Not to long ago a big fire whipped through the area and it got some of the coulee.  That stuff is now back to full foliage.  Great stuff for wildlife.

Heck, if any of you have been out to the Badlands just take a look at the difference in Forest Service land compared to private pasture land.  There is a night and day difference.  I'm not against any of the ranchers, know plenty that are family friends, just saying you will be greatly surprised at the growth when grazers are managed.

Good luck!




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 | www.koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 | www.risovitaxidermystudio.com

 
Re: New Playground
by rdaleman on 06/30/2009 2:32 PM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
rdaleman
Joined: 11/15/2003
Location: ND
KDM
From your last post it sounds like the first thing you need to do is get the spurge under control and then work from there. The beetles is a good start but I would also contact the county weed board and visit with them. You maybe able to cost share with them on the chemical that you need to use in the fall as the time to spray spurge in the spring/early summer has come and gone. If you don't stop the spurge your already fighting an uphill battle in trying to change the land back to its pristine state.
Re: New Playground
by Tonts1 on 06/30/2009 3:48 PM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Tonts1
Joined: 11/19/2002
Location: ND
rngesci would say that grazing, so long as not overdone, is not always harmful to vegetation, and in some cases, helpful.  He hasn't been around in a while.  Too busy. 
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/30/2009 4:36 PM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
Rd, thanks for taking time to help.  There are 3 spurge patches and they are thin and about the size of a dinning room table, but I would like to get the rest of that stuff too.  I will check for chemicals that would help as I know spurge is a tough one to kill.  I will check the soil type and get back to you.  I have the legal description so we will see what I find. 

Tim, did your dad notice more grass plants per area of soil or did the ones there just grow taller?  The reason I ask is for erosion purposes and I would like to fill in some of the gaps left over by the cattle pulling the grass up roots and all.  Thanks.
Re: New Playground
by Tim Sandstrom on 06/30/2009 5:03 PM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Tim Sandstrom
Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND

It all was native, or came back with time.  Really, the person renting it didn't beat it to death.  Well, too bad anyway.  Sometimes during dry years you could see the over grazing.

 




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 | www.koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 | www.risovitaxidermystudio.com

 
Re: New Playground
by kdm on 06/30/2009 5:15 PM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
kdm
Joined: 09/05/2008
Location: ND
Rd, The combination of soils is 33 acres of Buse-Barnes loams, 15 to 35 percent slopes and 13 acres of Kloten-Buse complex, 9 to 35 percent slopes.  There are some other minor types, but there it is.  Now what that means, I don't really know, but I will try to find out.  I tried to find out the PI on this, but the website didn't have that info that I could find.  Thank you for the link.  I will be looking it over for a while. 
Re: New Playground
by Dick Monson on 06/30/2009 10:16 PM | Reply #20 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
Dick Monson
Joined: 05/05/2008
Location: ND
The cost share on chemical is 60/40 by the weed board. Bring your ASCS map and call the county shed ahead to pick up your purchase.
29 Replies | Page 1 of 212 Next Page >> | Top of Page | Bottom of Page
Posted By: kdm
Posted On: 2009-06-2
1507 Views, 29 Comments

Tags: new, playground, tree, acre, plot, years, going, over, plant, planned
More Tags: pain, wool and depressed deer hunter,
Region: North Dakota

Categories: Hunting
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