Measure 2 Lawsuit (ND Political)

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iluvswnd's picture
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Measure 2 Lawsuit (ND Political)

 I'm not sure who actually filed the suit or what they are suing for but this Measure 2 proposition is already getting ugly.

Lawsuit: ND officials lying about tax measure

BISMARCK(AP) — Supporters of abolishing North Dakota's property taxes are suing Tax Commissioner Cory Fong and other officials. They say Fong and others are spreading false information about the proposal.

BISMARCK(AP) — Supporters of abolishing North Dakota's property taxes are suing Tax Commissioner Cory Fong and other officials. They say Fong and others are spreading false information about the proposal.

The lawsuit says Fong, four legislators and two county commissioners should be barred from talking about the proposed property tax ban — and prohibited from running for office again.

That penalty is included in a state law that bans spending public money on ballot measure campaigns.

The fight is about Measure 2. It is a constitutional amendment that would abolish property taxes. It will be on the June ballot.

Its supporters say public officials and groups representing schools, cities and counties are spreading falsehoods about the effects of the measure.

The lawsuit was filed Wednesday in state district court in Bismarck.


Source: http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/55526/


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If they're breaking the law then they should suffer the consequences.

 

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eyexer Said:
If they're breaking the law then they should suffer the consequences.

I  don't disagree, I'm just a little confused on the language of the press release.

Are they saying that they spent public money via their paid time on opposing Measure 2?


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sonsabitches

Neat

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I am %110 for getting rid of property tax. The way this measure has politicians scambling should tell us all something. GET RID OF THE PROPERTY TAX.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Went out early sat to the old tree caught 1small shark .Camera down all day saw no eyes.

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Great for you people in big cities the small towns get crap on over that  read everything

Went out early sat to the old tree caught 1small shark .Camera down all day saw no eyes.

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property needs to stay at least some of it there are rural fire dept that are needed the county does need the money the township gets some the soil conservation gets some the issue that everyone is upset with is that 68% of the total goes to the school district.   the schools need to do a lot of belt tightening. these schools do not need the biggest and the best all of the time  what is wrong with using last years books why can't computers be up graded instead of new computers. there is a lot of wasted money.   and I believe that if the school issue is addressed  the property tax issue will go away.

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

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 They are going to attack any person that is on the public payroll because they will claim that in those roles people are 24/7 in the publics service....  Wake up people.

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I'd love to not have to pay property taxes.  However, the state legislator has their hands full enough as it is trying to figure out the states biennium.  County Commissioners and City Commissioners will spend more time lobbying for a piece of the pie and not.  This will hinder their budgeting process.  If you like big government, passing for measure 2 will do that. 

Hail the Bison!
Go Pack Go!
 

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Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

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Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

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I hate paying taxes as much as the next guy, and my initial knee jerk reaction would be to pass it.  But I admit I haven't looked at or studied the ramifications of this measure yet.  
In my experience, nothing comes for free, and if property taxes were dropped, they'd just have to get the money  somewhere else.  I absolutely agree that wasteful stuff should be eliminated - trouble is, every one has a different idea of what is waste and what is necessary.  We all want the other guy to give....

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rooster77 Said:
Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

Your post was good for a laugh anyway. With property tax you never truly own your property. How about the states budget surplus? Hey we have some extra money how bout we build multi-million dollar sh%t-houses on the side of the interstate because they didn't know what else to spend it on. Who do you think is paying for that? Its good to have a surplus and all but to be blowing it on multimillion dollar rest areas among other things pisses me off a little. This is tax payer money you know? I know this isn't all property tax related but your analogy of bad roads and inferior equipment is a load of crap. This state has money and lots of it. They don't need our property taxes. Especially with all the oil money coming in. I guarantee they'll be taking advantage of that. And rightfully so.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

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IntroC
 
I think you will find out after the measure fails people could careless that they have to pay property taxes because they have common sense how this stupid measure is. 

You must not be able to think of anything into the future and what will happen. I don't know about you but just because I have money in my checking account I don't go spend every cent of it just because I have money. Maybe you should look at some other states around us that dont have a surplus and ask them what they think.

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IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

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marauder29 Said:
 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

Well said.

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gst Said:
IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

Dang, we don't agree on everything, but we are in lockstep on this.  No way do I want to see the cat herding that this would create if passed.

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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 To be very honest, I don't fully understand the measure. I do understand a few things though:
1. I would rather pay taxes that are local.
2. The oil industry in ND won't last forever, thus the money won't last forever. We have a surplus now but a surplus or even just a balanced budget, does not stay a surplus or balanced without an influx of funds.
3. The oil industry will eventually bust,  but the people here will endure. If we are to can property taxes now and then the oil money runs out, wether that be a year from now or 20, imagine how difficult it will be to reinstate property taxes so the state can just function.

I want to see a contingency plan, a worst case scenario so to speak. For reasons like, if the EPA were to halt the fracking, and the oil filed busts almost over night. Where will they now accrue funds? If I am wrong on anything I've posted here, please explain it to me because I really don't understand this measure. 

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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holy crap. here we go again...

 rEVOLution 2016

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The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 


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marauder29 Said:
 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

Pretty obvious you did your homework and understand the danger of this measure. It is poorly worded and vague about how funding will be provided to local entities. As others have said, as much as everyone would like to not pay property taxes we all for the most part realize that money goes somewhere for something.

gst is a landowner and pays (I'm only guessing) a hefty property tax bill every year, yet he is against this measure. That should say something about this. I hope North Dakotans are as wise seeing the danger of this measure as they were with the HFH measure and defeat it soundly.

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Allen Said:

gst Said:
IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

Dang, we don't agree on everything, but we are in lockstep on this.  No way do I want to see the cat herding that this would create if passed.

Allen, I would bet settin down over a beer we would disagree less than we agree on most things. If you ever get up north, I'd buy you one at the "shack" .

http://www.antlernd.com/

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Wake up people! This does not get rid of specials, so you will still have some property taxes. I know a lady who's house was auctioned off because her husband died, and she got behind on her property taxes. She didn't tell her kids and when they found out the house was gone! This man sold it back to the kids with a smaller profit than he could have made. She was able to remain in her house. How can this happen in a free country? You think it is right to pay rent on property you buy and own? If you don't pay the government the rent, they'll take it away! Do you really think you own your property? Minot hired a firm from out of state to show them how to make more tax money off their citizens. So many people either make their salary from the government, and so many people make a living off of taxes, that they will all be fighting this tooth and nail! Hoeven more than doubled the budget in North Dakota. Now Dalrymple is spending worse than a drunken sailer! I am the last conservative left in America I think? Notice how the NDSU dean flies on a private jet from Fargo to Bismarck to tell Dalrymple how NDSU is broke and needs to fleece the kids with an 8% increase in tuition so his expense account and out of touch lifestyle can continue! Do you people like to treated as peasants and get fleaced by people who are on the government payroll in one form or another?

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Life & Liberty Said:
Wake up people! This does not get rid of specials, so you will still have some property taxes. I know a lady who's house was auctioned off because her husband died, and she got behind on her property taxes. She didn't tell her kids and when they found out the house was gone! This man sold it back to the kids with a smaller profit than he could have made. She was able to remain in her house. How can this happen in a free country? You think it is right to pay rent on property you buy and own? If you don't pay the government the rent, they'll take it away! Do you really think you own your property? Minot hired a firm from out of state to show them how to make more tax money off their citizens. So many people either make their salary from the government, and so many people make a living off of taxes, that they will all be fighting this tooth and nail! Hoeven more than doubled the budget in North Dakota. Now Dalrymple is spending worse than a drunken sailer! I am the last conservative left in America I think? Notice how the NDSU dean flies on a private jet from Fargo to Bismarck to tell Dalrymple how NDSU is broke and needs to fleece the kids with an 8% increase in tuition so his expense account and out of touch lifestyle can continue! Do you people like to be treated as peasants and get fleaced by people who are on the government payroll in one form or another?

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marauder29 Said:
 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

what I would do is keep the tax on unimproved land as it is.  they don't pay that much anyway.  then drop the tax on your home.

 

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marauder29 Said:
 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

The legislature has two options.  They slash property taxes to an acceptable level or they will have a measure such as #2 pass.  It may not get done the first go around.  But if the legislature doesn't slash property taxes it certainly will pass the second go around.  So they better shut their pie hole and get to work or the people will do it for them.

 

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Meelosh Said:
 To be very honest, I don't fully understand the measure. I do understand a few things though:
1. I would rather pay taxes that are local.
2. The oil industry in ND won't last forever, thus the money won't last forever. We have a surplus now but a surplus or even just a balanced budget, does not stay a surplus or balanced without an influx of funds.
3. The oil industry will eventually bust,  but the people here will endure. If we are to can property taxes now and then the oil money runs out, wether that be a year from now or 20, imagine how difficult it will be to reinstate property taxes so the state can just function.

I want to see a contingency plan, a worst case scenario so to speak. For reasons like, if the EPA were to halt the fracking, and the oil filed busts almost over night. Where will they now accrue funds? If I am wrong on anything I've posted here, please explain it to me because I really don't understand this measure. 

the oil royalties and taxes will never go away.  they will keep increasing and level out at which time the drilling ceases.  by then it'll be a number one can't imagine. 

 

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marauder29 Said:

The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 

why do we need property tax relief?  I can't even believe you asked that. 

 

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eyexer Said:

marauder29 Said:

The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 

why do we need property tax relief?  I can't even believe you asked that. 

Pretty sure he asked it meaning we need to look at the root cause of why we need it, not that it isn't needed.

You can't aim a duck to death.

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 Bottom line the nd gov has grown 135% over the last 5 sessions, last year we had enough oil revenue in the surplus to have followed alaskas lead and written a check to every person over 18 in the state for $1500 wich is more than enough to cover the property tax av. Of ~ $2600 per household but instead hoven wrote a $130M check to the board of higher ed. Look where that got us. 

Eye has it right if the legeslature does not cease its spending this measure will pass, maybe not this time but next. It is unfair that our legeslature had to call an extra sesion to find more ways to spend our state surplus.  Wake up people we are the 4th highest property taxed state in the country and have a 6 bilion budget dor 700k people. Whats the deal

I am not sure if this plan is perfect but something is Not right The numbers dont lie. As this unfolds i think we should all pay close atention to what is going on and keep an open
Mind about it

 rEVOLution 2016

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I am not voting for the measure, I think the Lawsuit is an attempt to garner publicity. I sat and had a long conversation with one of people who sponsored this measure. Nice gal, but simply had no real answers to what the measure would do. The gist of what I got from her is that local taxing districts would simply send in the money request and the Leg would be obligated to fund it. No QUESTIONS ASKED!

Now for those of you who are in favor of this measure tell me is this a frigging good idea? I can see how the school districts drooling over the term properly funded. Since there is not a township, or county that is not in need where does that stop? How about the weed boards?

Then I thought she said that the city's would fund police and other services via your utility bill like they do sewer and water are!

When I tried to pin her down on this she went off in a misdirection about how property values are set! Get a chance and pin them down on specifics! Some of you who are in support of this bring those specifics forward. All you guys talk about is generality and avoid answering the direct question.

Here is two! If Dickey County has established  needs $50,000.00 for such things as  flood damaged roads and bridges. Who decides if they get it?

See Dickey County will have two Sen and likely two  Reps. Cass, Richland,Nelson alone based on population and elected officials from them could make sure that money never gets to Dickey County and I right?

Now maybe all of the not so populated places could band together but dump the districts out of Burliegh and a one or two more and you are screwed!

Now lets talk about schools! Someone mentioned that Bismarch is in need of new schools because of growth. They decide to build a show place! Who decides what is necessity and what is fluff?

Then let us look at Northwood for example school destroyed in the tornado! Could one have justified building a new school there or close the district down and split the kids up! Which would have been more prudent?

Now on the subject of schools! We have schools all across ND that are declining in enrollment. Right now the voters of the district decide if they want to continue funding the school or close. If it boils down to economics only, there are countless schools districts that are going to close and with the closure of the school the town dies more quickly!

So these are real questions that need to be looked at! This is the loss of local control that have been talked about! When the school I went to closed, it was the result of local decision not Bismarck and the Leg. I want that, and if some of you where a bit more honest I think you would as well!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Marauder and bobkat nailed it IMO.

 

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I would like to add hardwaterman to the list of people who nailed this issue with this specific bill.

 

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I'm on a volunteer fire department in a rural area. If this bill were to pass we would be in the same boat as every other small department in the state wondering who we ask for our funding, who decides what we receive, etc.  The department hasn't changed it's mills in the past 30 years and has no intention to, and they are very low. would we survive? Would each county have a central fire department instead of having hundreds of small departments asking for funding? 

This will create a mess by abolishing a system that admittedly needs some fixing. However, completely doing away with property taxes isn't going to "fix" anything. 

I won't rehash some very good points others hav made but I'm glad to see the majority of posters are, in my opinion, on the right side of this debate.
Gst, marauder, bowhuntin, Allen, and others are right on track in my opinion. 

Eyexer and moose, you also make a good point that hopefully this is a wake up call to legislators to offer some relief, and hopefully they get that message. 

Vote NO on measure 2. 

J

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gst Said:
Allen, I would bet settin down over a beer we would disagree less than we agree on most things. If you ever get up north, I'd buy you one at the "shack" .

http://www.antlernd.com/

I suspect you are correct.  This semi-anonymous environment known as the internet is a weird thing.  For the life of me, I can't ever remember being in Antler.  Westhope, Sherwood, Newburg, Maxbass...yep, yep, and yep but not Antler. 

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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holy hell is freezing over and the vikes are superbowl bound hardwaterman and gst are agreeing

 Adn

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I don't think the measure will pass, but I'm voting for it anyway. Property taxes in ND are out of line. School districts and local governments need to tighten their belts so this will hopefully throw a scare into them, or it WILL pass the next time it comes around. Then they will be forced to deal with how they get their funding, and it will get ugly.


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What if they were to do something like, you only pay taxes on what yhte property was assessed at when you bought? For instance, you bought your home in 1975 for $25000 and that it also what it was assessed at. You only pay property taxes at that assesed amount as long as you own the property?

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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StevePike Said:

eyexer Said:

marauder29 Said:

The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 

why do we need property tax relief?  I can't even believe you asked that. 

Pretty sure he asked it meaning we need to look at the root cause of why we need it, not that it isn't needed.

whew thank god.  for a minute I thought he lost his mind.

 

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Meelosh Said:
What if they were to do something like, you only pay taxes on what yhte property was assessed at when you bought? For instance, you bought your home in 1975 for $25000 and that it also what it was assessed at. You only pay property taxes at that assesed amount as long as you own the property?

now something like that would be a good idea.  I am supportive of measure two's ideology.  Like others have mentioned there are some unanswered questions regarding some of the finer points of the issue.  Until some of the questions or concerns are put to rest I don't think it'll pass.  I just may vote for it to show support for it so that they will iron out the details a little better for the second go around.  As I pointed out before either the legislature will address this issue or the voters will do it for them.  It's really up to the legislature.  And they've obviously been put on notice or you wouldn't be having tax dollars spent on fighting against it.  So we'll see what these people are made of I guess.  I can also tell you that if there isn't some serious changes out west and add in this property tax debacle, Dalrymple is a half termer.  Even I will vote for a Democrat believe it or not. 

 

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Meelosh Said:
What if they were to do something like, you only pay taxes on what yhte property was assessed at when you bought? For instance, you bought your home in 1975 for $25000 and that it also what it was assessed at. You only pay property taxes at that assesed amount as long as you own the property?

One question though.  What if I build a new house?  Which I am this spring.  Then I'll probably pay three times what a person pays with a like house that is ten to twenty years older.  There wouldn't be a better way to put an end to new construction in ND.

 

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its funny that you pretend conservatives think getting rid of the property tax will for example "grow government and force us to lose local control of our school systems". Are you people actually under the impression that we have local control now?  We pay property taxes so that the state and federal governemnt can then tell us how our property taxes need to be spent.  and if we are required to fall inline with waht the state gvt and feds want then what is the glorious purpose of paying property taxes again?  i sure as hell hope you people dont think you have some kind of control just because you live in a rural area and happen to know the schoolborard members. 

All of you whining about volunteer fire departments not recieving money need to get over it. ive got news for you. most VFDs respond to a ridiculously low level of calls particularly ones where people are in harms way. YOU DONT NEED EXPENSIVE SHIT JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK IT WOULD BE "COOL". you are not FDNY and dont need the budget. if you absolutely need new equipment to perferm these basic tasks required of you then yes you should be able to find a way to purchase some better equipment at the lowest cost possible.
 
Id also like to point out just how stupid it is to pretend that people are going to be lying in dead in a ditch somewhere because a deputy couldnt seem to get his radio to work. really? dont be retarded. sheriffs departments already have an inflated budget because they too think they need the newest toys and latest training just so they can learn how to write a speeding ticket or haul the occasional drunk out of his car at a DUI checkpoint.

give me a break people

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maybe the people need a choice
NO state income tax and leave the property tax  and keep the sales tax

no sales tax and leave the property tax and income tax

No property tax and increase the state income tax by 10%

Tax every room in a mancamp the same rate as a city lot. big oil will pay it that would get enough money for schools

The biggest issue is the people are tired of supporting school expansion because the out of state oilfield workers are not paying any property tax yet still sucking on the education tit.. and the schools need to add classrooms and have special needs kids in school many spanish, chinese, middle east. and whatever other people are drug in here.

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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KurtR Said:
holy hell is freezing over and the vikes are superbowl bound hardwaterman and gst are agreeing

The vikes superbowl bound??????????
 
swift and I would likely agree before that happens!!!!!

Ron often posts things I agree with, just sometimes in an overly confident, abrasive manner that some find well ............

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Allen Said:

gst Said:
Allen, I would bet settin down over a beer we would disagree less than we agree on most things. If you ever get up north, I'd buy you one at the "shack" .

http://www.antlernd.com/

I suspect you are correct.  This semi-anonymous environment known as the internet is a weird thing.  For the life of me, I can't ever remember being in Antler.  Westhope, Sherwood, Newburg, Maxbass...yep, yep, and yep but not Antler. 

So I wonder if Antlers request for a new garbage pick up contract would get as much discussion in the allocation of funding process as say Fargo's flood protection request under Measure 2's procedural guidelines? 

So if Antlers garbage pick up contract is not renewed thru the state legislature in a manner satisfactory to the residents of Antler, who do the residents of Antler hold accountable? 

If all requests submitted are simply pass thru auto approved requests, who gets held accountable for excess spending? 

Who here beleives if that is indeed the case, spending requests will not exceede surplus levels? 

Someone please explain how this will hold the spending of this surplus accountable.
 

Allen, you're missing one of lifes finer experiences!!!!

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Life & Liberty Said:
Wake up people! This does not get rid of specials, so you will still have some property taxes. I know a lady who's house was auctioned off because her husband died, and she got behind on her property taxes. She didn't tell her kids and when they found out the house was gone! This man sold it back to the kids with a smaller profit than he could have made. She was able to remain in her house. How can this happen in a free country? You think it is right to pay rent on property you buy and own? If you don't pay the government the rent, they'll take it away! Do you really think you own your property? Minot hired a firm from out of state to show them how to make more tax money off their citizens. So many people either make their salary from the government, and so many people make a living off of taxes, that they will all be fighting this tooth and nail! Hoeven more than doubled the budget in North Dakota. Now Dalrymple is spending worse than a drunken sailer! I am the last conservative left in America I think? Notice how the NDSU dean flies on a private jet from Fargo to Bismarck to tell Dalrymple how NDSU is broke and needs to fleece the kids with an 8% increase in tuition so his expense account and out of touch lifestyle can continue! Do you people like to treated as peasants and get fleaced by people who are on the government payroll in one form or another?

Good try on special assessments... how do you think special assessments will be treated going forward with the repeal of property taxes?

How will you pay for the curb and gutter in front of your new house? or for the road in your new development?

This is a great scare tactic...

what is the marginal utility of a road that is used to bring grain from a farm to an elevator?

what is the marginal utility of a road that is used to bring a person injured in a car accident to the hospital?

what is the marginal utility of a road that is used to bring kids to school?

Who should pay for the up-keep of those roads? Who should pay for the enforcement to keep them safe by the enforcement of the laws?

As far as the budget goes... do you think repealing the property tax will shrink the state budget?

Do you think the repealing of property taxes will decrease or increase the beaurocracy in our state?

Tell me how the repeal of property taxes improves North Dakota?

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How do you pay for sewer improvements?

How do you pay for access to municipal water?

 

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The only changes we need to make to properrty tax is to have all property taxed at the same rate.

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