Measure 2 Lawsuit (ND Political)

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Measure 2 Lawsuit (ND Political)

 I'm not sure who actually filed the suit or what they are suing for but this Measure 2 proposition is already getting ugly.

Lawsuit: ND officials lying about tax measure

BISMARCK(AP) — Supporters of abolishing North Dakota's property taxes are suing Tax Commissioner Cory Fong and other officials. They say Fong and others are spreading false information about the proposal.

BISMARCK(AP) — Supporters of abolishing North Dakota's property taxes are suing Tax Commissioner Cory Fong and other officials. They say Fong and others are spreading false information about the proposal.

The lawsuit says Fong, four legislators and two county commissioners should be barred from talking about the proposed property tax ban — and prohibited from running for office again.

That penalty is included in a state law that bans spending public money on ballot measure campaigns.

The fight is about Measure 2. It is a constitutional amendment that would abolish property taxes. It will be on the June ballot.

Its supporters say public officials and groups representing schools, cities and counties are spreading falsehoods about the effects of the measure.

The lawsuit was filed Wednesday in state district court in Bismarck.


Source: http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/55526/


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If they're breaking the law then they should suffer the consequences.

 

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eyexer Said:
If they're breaking the law then they should suffer the consequences.

I  don't disagree, I'm just a little confused on the language of the press release.

Are they saying that they spent public money via their paid time on opposing Measure 2?


J

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sonsabitches

Neat

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I am %110 for getting rid of property tax. The way this measure has politicians scambling should tell us all something. GET RID OF THE PROPERTY TAX.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Went out early sat to the old tree caught 1small shark .Camera down all day saw no eyes.

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Great for you people in big cities the small towns get crap on over that  read everything

Went out early sat to the old tree caught 1small shark .Camera down all day saw no eyes.

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property needs to stay at least some of it there are rural fire dept that are needed the county does need the money the township gets some the soil conservation gets some the issue that everyone is upset with is that 68% of the total goes to the school district.   the schools need to do a lot of belt tightening. these schools do not need the biggest and the best all of the time  what is wrong with using last years books why can't computers be up graded instead of new computers. there is a lot of wasted money.   and I believe that if the school issue is addressed  the property tax issue will go away.

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

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 They are going to attack any person that is on the public payroll because they will claim that in those roles people are 24/7 in the publics service....  Wake up people.

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I'd love to not have to pay property taxes.  However, the state legislator has their hands full enough as it is trying to figure out the states biennium.  County Commissioners and City Commissioners will spend more time lobbying for a piece of the pie and not.  This will hinder their budgeting process.  If you like big government, passing for measure 2 will do that. 

Hail the Bison!
Go Pack Go!
 

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Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

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Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

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I hate paying taxes as much as the next guy, and my initial knee jerk reaction would be to pass it.  But I admit I haven't looked at or studied the ramifications of this measure yet.  
In my experience, nothing comes for free, and if property taxes were dropped, they'd just have to get the money  somewhere else.  I absolutely agree that wasteful stuff should be eliminated - trouble is, every one has a different idea of what is waste and what is necessary.  We all want the other guy to give....

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rooster77 Said:
Amen Marauder!!!! To many people have no clue on what that measure would do to the whole state and its criticial services. Just think if one of these guys that support this measure go out hunting in the morning. They are traveling down a township road to their favorite hunting spot. Then they hit a spot in the road the is rough due to the township not being able to maintain the road and crash their pickup. Now the call 911 because someone is hurt bad but the dispatcher cant get ahold of a deputy to drive to the scene because his radio isnt working properly because the county is out of money like the township due to this measure passing. Then the dispatcher calls this fire dept for rescue equipment but now the fire department cant help because they dont have any updated equipment that is strong enough to cut his newer pickup because of the new metals in construction of the car. I could go on and on with this. Its sad that we have people living in north dakota that cant get the facts on something before they vote or open their mouth for that matter.

Your post was good for a laugh anyway. With property tax you never truly own your property. How about the states budget surplus? Hey we have some extra money how bout we build multi-million dollar sh%t-houses on the side of the interstate because they didn't know what else to spend it on. Who do you think is paying for that? Its good to have a surplus and all but to be blowing it on multimillion dollar rest areas among other things pisses me off a little. This is tax payer money you know? I know this isn't all property tax related but your analogy of bad roads and inferior equipment is a load of crap. This state has money and lots of it. They don't need our property taxes. Especially with all the oil money coming in. I guarantee they'll be taking advantage of that. And rightfully so.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

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IntroC
 
I think you will find out after the measure fails people could careless that they have to pay property taxes because they have common sense how this stupid measure is. 

You must not be able to think of anything into the future and what will happen. I don't know about you but just because I have money in my checking account I don't go spend every cent of it just because I have money. Maybe you should look at some other states around us that dont have a surplus and ask them what they think.

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IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

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marauder29 Said:
 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

Well said.

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gst Said:
IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

Dang, we don't agree on everything, but we are in lockstep on this.  No way do I want to see the cat herding that this would create if passed.

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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 To be very honest, I don't fully understand the measure. I do understand a few things though:
1. I would rather pay taxes that are local.
2. The oil industry in ND won't last forever, thus the money won't last forever. We have a surplus now but a surplus or even just a balanced budget, does not stay a surplus or balanced without an influx of funds.
3. The oil industry will eventually bust,  but the people here will endure. If we are to can property taxes now and then the oil money runs out, wether that be a year from now or 20, imagine how difficult it will be to reinstate property taxes so the state can just function.

I want to see a contingency plan, a worst case scenario so to speak. For reasons like, if the EPA were to halt the fracking, and the oil filed busts almost over night. Where will they now accrue funds? If I am wrong on anything I've posted here, please explain it to me because I really don't understand this measure. 

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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holy crap. here we go again...

 rEVOLution 2016

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The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 


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marauder29 Said:
 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

Pretty obvious you did your homework and understand the danger of this measure. It is poorly worded and vague about how funding will be provided to local entities. As others have said, as much as everyone would like to not pay property taxes we all for the most part realize that money goes somewhere for something.

gst is a landowner and pays (I'm only guessing) a hefty property tax bill every year, yet he is against this measure. That should say something about this. I hope North Dakotans are as wise seeing the danger of this measure as they were with the HFH measure and defeat it soundly.

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Allen Said:

gst Said:
IntroC, perhaps you can explain how in the constitutionalyly alloted time for the legislature to be in session they can approve all the budget prosal of every twnship, county, city ect... in this state? I have heard there would be over 3500 budget proposals to approve during the legislative session if this passes.

Perhaps you wish to see us go to having the legislature in session 12 monthes out of every year like our neighbor to the east?

Perhaps you do not understand that when the legislature is home they can "do no harm"!

Perhaps you wish to see the ability of those that most aptly know where the investment in infrastructure, schools, emergency services ect...are needed and the abiltiy for them  to determine where and how much be taken away and given to the state legislature?

Perhaps you wish the see the ability of those with the greatest representation have a greater say in how monies are alloted out of the avalible pool regardless of how it affects those with less representation?

Perhaps you just wish to see the most local forms of govt wither and die.

Perhaps you can explain how if the EPA puts a moratorium on fracking how "all this oil money" surplus will keep rolling in to pay for the property tax that was lost.

Perhaps you can explain how if people keep taking 5% here and 5% there of the oil money "surplus" how there will remain a "surplus"?

Just a couple of points to ponder.

Dang, we don't agree on everything, but we are in lockstep on this.  No way do I want to see the cat herding that this would create if passed.

Allen, I would bet settin down over a beer we would disagree less than we agree on most things. If you ever get up north, I'd buy you one at the "shack" .

http://www.antlernd.com/

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Wake up people! This does not get rid of specials, so you will still have some property taxes. I know a lady who's house was auctioned off because her husband died, and she got behind on her property taxes. She didn't tell her kids and when they found out the house was gone! This man sold it back to the kids with a smaller profit than he could have made. She was able to remain in her house. How can this happen in a free country? You think it is right to pay rent on property you buy and own? If you don't pay the government the rent, they'll take it away! Do you really think you own your property? Minot hired a firm from out of state to show them how to make more tax money off their citizens. So many people either make their salary from the government, and so many people make a living off of taxes, that they will all be fighting this tooth and nail! Hoeven more than doubled the budget in North Dakota. Now Dalrymple is spending worse than a drunken sailer! I am the last conservative left in America I think? Notice how the NDSU dean flies on a private jet from Fargo to Bismarck to tell Dalrymple how NDSU is broke and needs to fleece the kids with an 8% increase in tuition so his expense account and out of touch lifestyle can continue! Do you people like to treated as peasants and get fleaced by people who are on the government payroll in one form or another?

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Life & Liberty Said:
Wake up people! This does not get rid of specials, so you will still have some property taxes. I know a lady who's house was auctioned off because her husband died, and she got behind on her property taxes. She didn't tell her kids and when they found out the house was gone! This man sold it back to the kids with a smaller profit than he could have made. She was able to remain in her house. How can this happen in a free country? You think it is right to pay rent on property you buy and own? If you don't pay the government the rent, they'll take it away! Do you really think you own your property? Minot hired a firm from out of state to show them how to make more tax money off their citizens. So many people either make their salary from the government, and so many people make a living off of taxes, that they will all be fighting this tooth and nail! Hoeven more than doubled the budget in North Dakota. Now Dalrymple is spending worse than a drunken sailer! I am the last conservative left in America I think? Notice how the NDSU dean flies on a private jet from Fargo to Bismarck to tell Dalrymple how NDSU is broke and needs to fleece the kids with an 8% increase in tuition so his expense account and out of touch lifestyle can continue! Do you people like to be treated as peasants and get fleaced by people who are on the government payroll in one form or another?

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marauder29 Said:
 Non resident landowners will love it if you get rid of property taxes... You better educate yourself on the issue. This is not a good thing for North Dakota.... Where are you going to make up for the loss in tax revenue?

The people who put this piece of legislation together knew what they were doing in order to deceive the public and to muzzle anyone who knows how important property taxes are to every citizen. where do you think your schools get their funding? Where does your county get its budget? where does your park board get its funding?

I don't want to pay anymore than my fair share of taxes but that's just it... You have to pay your share to use the roads, educate your community and so on. 

Do you think it is a coincidence that they included the provision that outlaws...yes outlaws... People from using any public funded resources to even meet to discuss this bill. Any person who is on the public payroll will be sued by this organization to ensure the public is not educated. I wonder if they are playing on the fact that an uneducated public that only sees property taxes as a burden to get this passed. I'm n

what I would do is keep the tax on unimproved land as it is.  they don't pay that much anyway.  then drop the tax on your home.

 

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marauder29 Said:
 I want to understand this though... Because we have a surplus we should change the fundementals of how we budget for the basic services through out our state. Let's not forget how this state has remained afloat through the ups...like now...and the downs, by not moving towards extremes. If we as a public want property tax relief let us vote on a measure that doesn't abolish property taxes but rather provides a temporary solution that is time bound and has the opportunity to expire without changing the structure. Seriously, do your homework and think for yourself... Oil money is not a blank check but rather an inheritance. We can choose how we invest it to ensure the viability of our State and it's people or we can forget the principles that got us here...this is a very important fork in the road for our state. 

The legislature has two options.  They slash property taxes to an acceptable level or they will have a measure such as #2 pass.  It may not get done the first go around.  But if the legislature doesn't slash property taxes it certainly will pass the second go around.  So they better shut their pie hole and get to work or the people will do it for them.

 

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Meelosh Said:
 To be very honest, I don't fully understand the measure. I do understand a few things though:
1. I would rather pay taxes that are local.
2. The oil industry in ND won't last forever, thus the money won't last forever. We have a surplus now but a surplus or even just a balanced budget, does not stay a surplus or balanced without an influx of funds.
3. The oil industry will eventually bust,  but the people here will endure. If we are to can property taxes now and then the oil money runs out, wether that be a year from now or 20, imagine how difficult it will be to reinstate property taxes so the state can just function.

I want to see a contingency plan, a worst case scenario so to speak. For reasons like, if the EPA were to halt the fracking, and the oil filed busts almost over night. Where will they now accrue funds? If I am wrong on anything I've posted here, please explain it to me because I really don't understand this measure. 

the oil royalties and taxes will never go away.  they will keep increasing and level out at which time the drilling ceases.  by then it'll be a number one can't imagine. 

 

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marauder29 Said:

The post mentioning 12 month legislature is a fact, every single entities down to the Goodrich park board would need to go down to the capital to lobby for their budget in front of the legislature. 

The questions we need to start asking is why do we need Property tax relief in the first place?

This measure does nothing but consolidate government and kick the can down the road by not addressing why we need property tax relief in the first place. Let's start to look at these issues and collaborate to solve them. Bismarck needs 85 million in new schools for example... Well, how long has it been since we invested in schools? Why haven't we been investing in incements rather than having to invet all at once? 

why do we need property tax relief?  I can't even believe you asked that. 

 

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