Heavy Barreled Deer Rifle?

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Trapper62's picture
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Heavy Barreled Deer Rifle?

I have been kicking around getting a heavy barreled rifle with a good scope for deer hunting.  Most of my deer hunting now-a-days is done on my butt behind a pair of binoculars be it muley or whitetail, I also enhoy shooting 400+ yards.  I am not sure what a good gun choice would be but I was looking at rifles in Scheels this weekend and found a Remmington Model 700 SPS, heavy barrel in a 308 calber.  I would like to stay with a little faster caliber (270, 25-06, etc.) but don't know much about heavy barreled rifles.  Would this be a good choice, it sure had a nice feel, the only thing that is holding me back is the caliber?

Also looked at the Scheels Outfitter Icon Trifecta 4-12x44 scope.  Again this scope is designed for a faster caliber (2700+ fps) and I am concerned that with the slower 308 it would be a waste of money?

Any ideas on a good setup?, or the one listed above.  I don't have an unlimited amount to spend but am hoping to find something in the $1,000.00 range.  I have other guns so this one would be used mainly for deer/antelope.

Thanks in advance for the input!

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taylorman_55
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 I think a 25-06, .270, or 7mm in the heavy barrel would be a great setup. Not sure if they make a 7mm in the heavy barrel? Havent looked into it that much actually, but it (7mm) is fast, flat shooting, and doesnt kick overall like a mule. The scheels scopes have the lifetime warranty, I have more than a few of them, and so far have been very happy with them. Overall for the heavy barrels, if you are in half decent shape, and not lugging it 10+ miles, I think you will be just fine. If the gun feels amazing and you shoot knock out groups with it, IMO, its worth the extra weight.

 

theSting
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308 is great caliber for long range shooting, but personally I think if I was setting up a gun for hunting at longer ranges, I would want something that shoots flatter than the 308.

A 25-06 would be a good choice. Definietly will get the job done. Remington made the Sendero in a 25-06 a few years ago and they shoot great, 26" barrel gets you some more speed. Heavy barrel that is fluted. Great gun. They also make these in a few different calibers. Come from the factory with a HS Precision stock. 7mm is availible, 264 is out there, 300 is out there.

If I were to set up a long range deer gun, and thats the ONLY thing I'm going to do with it, I would use a .257 Weatherby or the .264 Win Mag.  Both are great choices, especially in the .264. 6.5 bullets are quite slippery and there are a TON of great hunting rounds.

Trifecta scope is a great piece of optics for the money, clear glass and great warrany, but if you want to really get the most out of the rifle I would put a Zeiss with the Rapid Z reticle in there.

Good luck!

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I shoot to 1000 plus with a heavy barrel 300 WM with 210 gr Berger VLD at 2875 fps.

If you don't want the recoil I would suggest something in the 6.5mm.  I also shoot a 6.5X284 Cooper Phoenix.  I have been looking at the Thompson Center Icon or lower price Venture in 6.5 Creedmore.  I watched a youtube video of one of the reputable outdoor writers take an elk at 600 yards plus.  The ballistic coefficient of the 140 gr Berger VLD doesn't look impressive at the muzzle, but it's nearly as flat as the 25-06 at 400 yards and beyond 500 it starts walking on the standard 30 calibers.

After three knee surgeries I got into the long range hunting about ten or twelve years ago.  It's entertaining watching bucks sneak behind guys on the other side of the river at 1200 yards.  You will see things you never do while walking and hunting.  Spend a couple of years at it and it will make you a better hunter while walking also.  Deer behavior is entertaining to most of us and you will see a lot more of it while you sit.

Oh, here is a mulie I shot three years ago.  I invested 14 hour sitting on my behind for this guy.  We seen him at sunrise opening day, but season didn't open until noon.  I ducked out of site for ten minutes to get a bite to eat and when I looked back he had left his bed and he was nowhere to be seen that day.

dschaible
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25-06 AI.

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I just checked gunbroker.com and it has Remington Senderos in 25-06, 270, 7mm and 300 win and ultra mag plus a few others.  Most are over $1000 but a few are under.  I know nothing about the Scheels scope you mention but something with good target knobs and a reticle that will help with hold over and/or for wind is recommended,  I have Leupold 6.5-20X-50 M1 dials and the TMR in my long range rigs, pricey but worth it.  Don't forget the most important of all, lots of practice.  If I haven't shot for 2 or 3 weeks hitting my 880 or 1000 yard plates becomes more of a SWAG shot (scientific wild ass guess)

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Hornaday's .284 162gn A-max, .243 105 A-max, and .244 75gn A-max all rate having a rifle to digest them as do the simlarly weighted Berger VLD's.  The 105 and 162 behave give or take like a Nosler Ballistic tip on game.

A .5ish B.C. 105-110gn .257 A-Max would excite me too.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Do you reload? Do you like to shoot a lot or is this strictly for hunting? What is your definition of long distance? The hotter the caliber you get, the sooner your going to wear out your barrel. I have a Tikka t3 varmint that shoots 65gr Sierra's very well, out to 600 yards. I havent tried past that distance yet. If you are thinking about spending around 1k on the rifle and you reload, I would consider the Savage Model: 12 Long Range Precision in 260 Rem. With a savage you can also swap barrels yourself, so one gun can be used to shoot several different calibers.

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I have used a Remington SPS Tactical in .308 the last three years.  I am reloading 130gr TTSX and they are going about 2900 fps out of the 20" barrel. 

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Lycanthrope Said:
Do you reload? Do you like to shoot a lot or is this strictly for hunting? What is your definition of long distance? The hotter the caliber you get, the sooner your going to wear out your barrel. I have a Tikka t3 varmint that shoots 65gr Sierra's very well, out to 600 yards. I havent tried past that distance yet. If you are thinking about spending around 1k on the rifle and you reload, I would consider the Savage Model: 12 Long Range Precision in 260 Rem. With a savage you can also swap barrels yourself, so one gun can be used to shoot several different calibers.

I just turned 50, grew up shooting at a very young age, I do reload (my dad always relaoded - first memory of that was with a hand held lee hand loader) and my main big game rifle is the Ruger M77 in a .270 that I bought in 1974, and honestly that gun is kind of like a third arm when it comes to shooting  My farthest kill in 484 yards at a whitetail buck shooting prone with that rifle which by the way is mounted with a old Weaver K4 wide angle scope.

I don't shoot as much as I use to but do still have a bench setup in the yard with ranges to 400 yards.  Probably a box a month right now, but that I sure would go up if I was to get a new one.  I have a number of guns (mainly rugers) ranging from the 22 rimfire, 22 hornet, to the 270.  I have number of other odd calibers of other makes as well, but would like a set up that could reach out there.  My version of long range for big game would 600-700 yards depending on all the variables at the time.

I never did think of the .260 Rem.,? 

I alway check my guns zero and bullet drop from a bench to get first hand data, than I also run it through a generic ballistics program to see how accurate it is.  If accurate than I plug in distances farther out.

POTS_20

What type of bullet drop are you seeing between the 200 yards targets and the 500 yardage?  That is my biggest fear with the .308, the amount of compensation for bullet drop out to farther ranges.   I really did like the feel of the Remington rifle though and the price was more than reasonable.

Thanks for the input! 

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I purchased a new sendero last year in a 7mm. The new Remington trigger pretty damn nice! I topped it with a Zeiss 6-20x50 with turrets. The scope tracks perfectly! I am shooting nosler accubond 140's. The combo work absolutely perfect. I am shooting about a 1/2" group at 100, about a 1-1/2 at 200, and around 2-21/2" at 300. I shot a mule deer in Wy last fall at 380 and dropped him stone dead in his tracks. My buddy just bought the exact same setup and is shooting 168 Berger vld's and his is shooting amazing as well! I don't believe there is a better rifle out of the box. Of course all this is after doing some work with the loads.

Hunt today like there may be no tomorrow!

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If you reload, for deer and lope at longer ranges the 260 would be high on my list, also 243 is worth considering, or 7mm08. If you are handy you can swap a barrel on a savage out in about 20 minutes. I have 243 and 308 barrels for mine but I would like to get a 7mm08 also. You can even use the same headspace gauges for all of the '08 cased cartridges.

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I will mention that the sendero got to be a little heaving packing around in the bighorn mountains but when it came to the moment of truth there isn't another gun I own I'd rather have at that moment.

Hunt today like there may be no tomorrow!

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I've got an old Rem 788 heavy barreled 243, and maybe it's just that one, but it is a long range tack driver.

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Lycanthrope, check out the 6.5 Creedmore.  I like the 260 also, but it's a longer case, and when you reload the heavy high ballistic coefficient 140 gr you have to push it back into the case taking up powder room.  From what I can find both calibers are capable of 2800+ with the 140 gr.  The Creedmore case is shorter because it's a blown out 22-250 which makes it more like the A1 case.  It lets you load the 140 and they still fit in the chamber and can reach up and touch the lands if you want to do that.
I thought you could buy barrels directly from Savage, but I called a half hour ago and nope I can't.  Where are you guys getting your barrels?  I have looked at E R Shaw.  I'm not looking for a bench rifle, just a less expensive barrel and a light rifle to carry. 
 

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Yeah, that same Savage I mentioned is available in the creedmore too. It sounds nice also. I have gotten.

www.lothar-walther.de/339.php

I have the 243 barrel in an 8 twist

www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html

I have a 308 barrel in Stainless Select Match with ratchet rifled 13 twist


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Trapper62 Said:

POTS_20

What type of bullet drop are you seeing between the 200 yards targets and the 500 yardage?  That is my biggest fear with the .308, the amount of compensation for bullet drop out to farther ranges.

Drop means jack-squat.  Drop is EASILY accounted for with an elevation turret or a scope reticle with extra aiming points for further distances.  Drop is only gravity and with good consistant reloads, it's ALWAYS the same, no guessing.  Yes atmosphereic conditions as well as elevation can skew things, but, again, they're easily accounted for.

WIND is your enemy as it's ALWAYS only a guess.  You can have the fanciest wind-meter in the world along with a couple dozen super sensitive wind flags and you're still guessing wind.  I've layed on the 600yd line a few times when the 300yd flag showed left-to-right and the 600yd flag showed right-to-left.  Wind calls can most certainly be an educated guess, but on every single shot, a wind-call is still a guess.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Lycanthrope Said:
I have the 243 barrel in an 8 twist

105 A-Max/VLD for showing off.  85TSX for killing.  A guy could rule the world as both bullets routinely do what can't be did according to them that read vs. shoot.  The 105 in particular is akin to cheating, a lot.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Horsager Said:

Lycanthrope Said:
I have the 243 barrel in an 8 twist

105 A-Max/VLD for showing off.  85TSX for killing.  A guy could rule the world as both bullets routinely do what can't be did according to them that read vs. shoot.  The 105 in particular is akin to cheating, a lot.

Cheating? I don't understand.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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I am running a Leupold VX III with turrets so I don't have to worry about compensation.

With a 200 yd zero, my chart says dial my M1's 9+1 MOA or 2.7 mils.

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Meelosh Said:

Horsager Said:

Lycanthrope Said:
I have the 243 barrel in an 8 twist

105 A-Max/VLD for showing off.  85TSX for killing.  A guy could rule the world as both bullets routinely do what can't be did according to them that read vs. shoot.  The 105 in particular is akin to cheating, a lot.

Cheating? I don't understand.

It slips the wind quite well, is cheap enough to shoot a ton, and with almost no recoil a guy can shoot it all day without developing a flinch or a headache.

It's like cheating cause a guy can stomach both the physical and financial parts of lots of practice.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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FIrst off you don't need a heavy barrel or a magnum for long range.  Only reason for the weight is it isn't as easy to pull off you target with a 15lb. rifle than it is with a 8lb. one.  The only thing a large caliber gives you is more room for error.  The smaller calibers are easy on the pocket book and alot funner to shoot.  6mms, 6.5mms are my favorite choices. 

As far as the 260 goes, case capacity is mute when you use the better powders like H4350.  You spin a 130 berger with a 8twist and you gain 26 more foot pounds of energy out of a 26" barrel going 2950fps.  

Look at used optics and buy the best you can afford.  Leupold, NF, Vortex PST Viper(one that hasn't had any issues I have heard of).

Wind is tough thing to learn and yes it is only a guess.  But keep in mind if the wind switches 40 times in the flight of the bullet the most important switches are the closest to your muzzle.  Those are the ones that affect the bullet flight the most.

Brent 

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 But keep in mind if the wind switches 40 times in the flight of the bullet the most important switches are the closest to your muzzle. Those are the ones that affect the bullet flight the most.
 

That is the only thing I will disagree with.  If you take the same bullet and push one at 2000 fps and the other at 3000 fps the faster bullet will be least affected.  In that light the closer to the muzzle the least affected.  If your taking a shot at 1000 yards the flight from 900 to 1000 is a lot slower than the flight time from your muzzle to 100 yards.  Run a program and watch the drift increase with every 100 yards.

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When did I ever compare different velocities?  Elaborate.  

Brent 

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If you really want I can do the calculations to prove it.  Or just plug it into my software, my brother writes it for the defense dept.  NLOS was his when he first finished his masters.

Brent

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130 Berger traveling 2950fps.

1000 Full value 10mph wind at muzzle:  6.9moa(69")  2950fps
 
500  Full value wind 10mph:  4.5moa(22.5") 2158fps

250  Full value wind 10mph: 2.75moa(6.875") 1817fps

I used the calculated drop in velocity as the muzzle velocity and got the above wind drifts. 
Brent

theSting
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Ballistics programs, even as good as this one is, still aren't 100% accurate.

I think that might be what the argument was.

blipelt Said:
If you really want I can do the calculations to prove it.  Or just plug it into my software, my brother writes it for the defense dept.  NLOS was his when he first finished his masters.

Brent

theSting
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woop....never mind....I read this bass ackwards!

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I have a Ruger 25-06 in the "Varmint" barrel, and I love it wouldn't trade it for nothing.  It does get to be a pain if your hiking a mile or two. 

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Sorry my understanding was that as the bullet looses velocity the enviros will affect it more.  Which isn't the case.  You will see a linear regression of wind correction as you move closer to the target even though your bullet slows.  One of the key factors is distance in the equation.  

Sorry I am getting geeky now I will stop.

Brent
       

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vanhookguide Said:
I've got an old Rem 788 heavy barreled 243, and maybe it's just that one, but it is a long range tack driver.

if you want to sell im looking to buy!

i own 788's in .222 .223 22 250 and .243 it is not just yours they are all tack drivers.

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blipelt, we may be getting our wires crossed. 

Just to make sure we both agree that a bullet traveling 2000 fps will drift more in the wind than a bullet traveling 3000 fps right?

I don't understand your chart.  You have 2950 fps at 1000 yards and a lower velocity at 250 yards. 

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I'm no expert but it would make sense to me that if two bullets equal in size and weight were flying in the air one at 1000 fps and the other at 2000 fps both travelling 100 yards to their target the bullet going 2000 fps will be in the air less time and therefor should be affected by the wind less than the bullet going 1000 fps which will be in the for a longer time

 

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Plainsman Said:

 But keep in mind if the wind switches 40 times in the flight of the bullet the most important switches are the closest to your muzzle. Those are the ones that affect the bullet flight the most.
 

That is the only thing I will disagree with.  If you take the same bullet and push one at 2000 fps and the other at 3000 fps the faster bullet will be least affected.  In that light the closer to the muzzle the least affected.  If your taking a shot at 1000 yards the flight from 900 to 1000 is a lot slower than the flight time from your muzzle to 100 yards.  Run a program and watch the drift increase with every 100 yards.

What you are trying to say is that the wind affect the bullet more at the target because it slows.  Which isn't the case.  Trig.and distance comes into play much like how moa's are calculated.  

Your theory is flawed:  put in the decreased velocity and calculate the wind correction.  You can't just take the numbers off a chart and say they increase this certain way.

Brent

   

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From my experience I notice more drift the farther the shot. Never ran any programs just a trial and error method.

The only way I could see you getting more drift close to the muzzle is that there would be a strong wind at the spot you are shooting from and out some distance from that spot there would have to be no wind therefore there is no more force pushing the bullet sideways.

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If this is a topic you want to further debate please start a new thread.  My apologies for stealing your thread Trapper62.  If you want to read about what I am saying read Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting vol 1 and 2.  He is a ballistican for Berger and a Aerospace Engineer(Rocket Scientist). 

Brent

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Brent not a problem, it has been an interesting read.  Not sure I fully understand what each of you are getting at but oh well  .
 
But I do know that if I shoot my .270 in a good cross wind at 200 yards my hold will be way different than the same conditions at 500 yards in order to hit my target.  Guess my Trial and Error Method and years of shooting and Practice, Practice, Practice taught me how to adjust it without really fully understanding the balistics behind it all.

Again no apology needed it was all relevant to longer distance shooting!

Thanks,

Pat

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I bought a 700 Sendero in 300 win mag when they shut down the local Gander Mountain.  Didn't use it the first year then mounted a Leupold 2.5-10 on it and it has been my number 1 rifle in thick or wide open cover. 

That rifle just shoots too good to leave it in the cabinet.  I have only shot it out to 300 yards but even at the range and throwing 165 grain or 180 grain bullets it still groups inside 3".  I think the rifle can probably do better the but the guy running it can live with that.

I think if you look around a bit you will find a Sendero on the rack somewhere might be used some are really marked down because they didn't sell.  Mine has the 26" bull barrel and that 300 win mag is easier on the shoulder from that rifle than my BDL in 06.