Hunting Fishing Discussions

Featured Outdoor Businesses

Dakota Tackle
Bismarck, ND


Share on Facebook subscribe feed
15 Replies | Page 1 of 11 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page

Google Earth for elevation

by , Posted to on 05/27/2011 5:24 PM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/22/2009
Location: MT
If you have google earth anywhere you look it will show elevation under the cursor. Someone just texted me and said they were going to Tobacco Garden to sandbag and I thought WTH? After looking turns out  quite a few of the lake homes there are under 1854. And for other uses I recommend it, very handy.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 5:47 PM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND

Google Earth elevations ARE NOT ACCURATE ENOUGH for anything that requires specific elevation data.

Google Earth uses the digital elevation models (DEMs) which is available and they will either be 10 meter or 30 meter resolution elevation models.  Folks, that isn't even close to accurate enough for sandbagging purposes.

Just want people to know that are in Bismarck.


 




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 6:39 PM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/22/2009
Location: MT
10-4 thsnks

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 6:52 PM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND

Don't get me wrong, it gets you ballpark but thats about it.




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 7:51 PM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/04/2002
Location: ND
Tim, is there a better tool out there accessible to the public? Especially those who do not have great map reading abilities.  

Many news agencies have links to sites like this (that use DEMs) and they may be giving people a false sense of security or worry.  

You can't aim a duck to death.

Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 8:02 PM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
Steve,

The king of data at least for mass use is LIDAR.  It is expensive and not available in many areas of the state.  The east has a lot because they are so flat and have been flood prone since basically the beginning of time.  So a lot of the east has it.

Out west it is available in areas.  Minot just had it flown and we got the data in raw format.  Well, not so much raw but just not usable yet at least efficiently.  We will be doing things with that data soon which will provide DEM data but on a platform that is very accurate.

LIDAR is expensive as I mentioned and it is pretty much impossible to get the funds to have it all done unless a federal government push calls for it, a group of entities gets together and cost shares, etc.  Plus, it isn't useful unless elevations are needed.  For instance, having LIDAR flown in the mountains wouldn't make much sense.  Sometime maybe it will happen but I think you get my point.

Bismarck I believe has it but I'm not sure.  They might be in the same boat as Minot where flooding isn't really a big threat.  Minot more-so and why we had it flown finally (cost was the prohibiter for many years).  Regarding Bismarck they might just not have it all completed yet or maybe had budgets associated.  I haven't a clue.

As for other ways of obtaining elevations the answer is no.  Not unless you have access to surveyed contours.  Other than that, it is the good ole topo maps and the data Google has available.  Or basically every single other computer based elevation system has.

You'll have to check around for specific areas.  In the future Minot will have it and have it accessible.  Fargo already does.  As I'm sure Grand Forks must.  Bismarck will too especially after this mess they are in.




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 9:42 PM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/06/2008
Location: ND
The GPS I had in my boat was within 3 - 5' of accurate according to the lake elevation.  It would have probably even been more accurate if I would have taken into account how far above the water level the sat. receiver was.
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/27/2011 10:58 PM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/03/2010
Location: nd
use a hand held GPS!!!!
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 00:40 AM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/04/2002
Location: ND
I was not asking for myself but more a question of if there was anything better that the general public could use by punching in their address. A lof of us have GPS's that can tell us elevation closer than the 30m they use but those with just a computer who are blindly clicking the link and believing they are at X,XXX elevation may be in trouble if they use it to determine how high to build their berms. 

You can't aim a duck to death.

Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 08:48 AM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
bowhunt247 Said:
use a hand held GPS!!!!
That possibly could be worse.

We compared a handheld to our county surveyed data and there was about a 13 foot difference.

People need to understand the differences in datums 88 and 29 as well.  Elevation is a difficult thing.  What you could POSSIBLY do is walk down to the water's edge and stand there with the handheld for about a minute and let it get its best accuracy.  Then walk to where you want an elevation and do the same.

Subtract the two.  That gives you change in elevation from water to your point of interest.  Then compare that to what the lake is expected to rise to or the river to rise to.

Again, I DO NOT SUGGEST THIS as handheld GPS lack accuracy as well.  You simply cannot get good accuracy without control and base station and especially without differential correction.




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 08:51 AM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
It has always been my suggestion to people when they ask about elevation to get that from their surveyed plat when they bought the property.  See if it is on record at the court house.  If not, then you need to contact the survey company that did your plat (property lines).  If they do not have it, then you should get a survey done.  I do not know what they charge but if you invest hundred of thousands of dollars into a home I find it a drop in the bucket to be assured what your elevation is.

I know, too little, too late right now but that is what I tell people in Ward county when they have called the office since 2009 flooding began.  They get frustrated but in all honesty, that is something people should take care of on their own if they know they bought in a flood plain.




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 08:55 AM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
I know this is more of a talk forum for elevation outside the flood areas (or it seemed as it related to Tobacco Gardens).  But with that said, I thought I'd post this from a PM a fellow member sent to me.

I know Bismarck has the data but to access it was difficult.  They apparantely did this data creation as a crude way of doing it.  Or maybe it isn't a crude way, it actually is very helpful.

Here you folks go living down in the Bismarck area.  I was told this is comprised of LIDAR data so it should  be good to go.  I am not responsible for that...it is up to you to ensure that it is indeed LIDAR.

http://bismarck.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3827




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 09:20 AM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/17/2003
Location: ND
Not to beat a dead horse, but Tim is absolutely correct regarding a handheld GPS. I hope nobody in the flood area is depending on what a handheld GPS tells them to make decisions one way or another regarding the flood fight. The way to find out is have someone shoot the elevation with a transit if you don't have it accessable by other means.
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 11:37 AM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/22/2009
Location: MT
Tim Sandstrom Said:
I know this is more of a talk forum for elevation outside the flood areas (or it seemed as it related to Tobacco Gardens).  But with that said, I thought I'd post this from a PM a fellow member sent to me.

I know Bismarck has the data but to access it was difficult.  They apparantely did this data creation as a crude way of doing it.  Or maybe it isn't a crude way, it actually is very helpful.

Here you folks go living down in the Bismarck area.  I was told this is comprised of LIDAR data so it should  be good to go.  I am not responsible for that...it is up to you to ensure that it is indeed LIDAR.

http://bismarck.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3827
Thanks for the info because what I was looking at just wasn't making sense, or at least i hoped that was the case. I couldn't figure out why they were sandbagging when they are supposed to be above 1854 ft plus these lake homes were there in '97 and stayed dry. According to google all the places in question are sitting at 1847 ish making 1854 basically right up to the doorstep of the TG restaurant. What one guy involved told me last night is that they are worried about in inflow pushing water levels up above where they once were as it goes by. I don't know how much that is a possibility, just what i was told. But anyway I'll just keep using google earth  for just getting the jist of things and most importantly for finding access to fishing spots.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 12:04 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
doublebarrelsaloon Said:
Tim Sandstrom Said:
I know this is more of a talk forum for elevation outside the flood areas (or it seemed as it related to Tobacco Gardens).  But with that said, I thought I'd post this from a PM a fellow member sent to me.

I know Bismarck has the data but to access it was difficult.  They apparently did this data creation as a crude way of doing it.  Or maybe it isn't a crude way, it actually is very helpful.

Here you folks go living down in the Bismarck area.  I was told this is comprised of LIDAR data so it should  be good to go.  I am not responsible for that...it is up to you to ensure that it is indeed LIDAR.

http://bismarck.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3827
Thanks for the info because what I was looking at just wasn't making sense, or at least i hoped that was the case. I couldn't figure out why they were sandbagging when they are supposed to be above 1854 ft plus these lake homes were there in '97 and stayed dry. According to google all the places in question are sitting at 1847 ish making 1854 basically right up to the doorstep of the TG restaurant. What one guy involved told me last night is that they are worried about in inflow pushing water levels up above where they once were as it goes by. I don't know how much that is a possibility, just what i was told. But anyway I'll just keep using google earth  for just getting the jist of things and most importantly for finding access to fishing spots.


It should be easy to figure out property that will need to be sandbagged at Tobacco.  The lake got to the highest point it could in 1997.  If they didn't sandbag then, they don't need to now.  The lake cannot get any more full than what it did in 1997.  If there was more development since then (which I suppose there was) people can still do it by using a level.  Stick a stake at the water line with 1 foot increments.  Go where they will think they need to sandbag and setup some type of system that will give them a shot at the stake.

Think I'll just leave it at that.  I don't want to be responsible.  I know a crude way of doing it but in all honesty it should be easy to figure out as the water level is currently at 1852.40 and the lake can go no more than 1854.4 so I guess do the math.  That's two feet and you should be able to figure out or eyeball two feet by using crude ways of "level" shooting.

Kind of redneck surveyeing...




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 koutdoorproducts.com
Risovi Taxidermy Studio | New Rockford, ND | 701-947-2048 risovitaxidermystudio.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: Google Earth for elevation
by on 05/28/2011 12:16 PM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/22/2009
Location: MT
Tim Sandstrom Said:
doublebarrelsaloon Said:
Tim Sandstrom Said:
I know this is more of a talk forum for elevation outside the flood areas (or it seemed as it related to Tobacco Gardens).  But with that said, I thought I'd post this from a PM a fellow member sent to me.

I know Bismarck has the data but to access it was difficult.  They apparently did this data creation as a crude way of doing it.  Or maybe it isn't a crude way, it actually is very helpful.

Here you folks go living down in the Bismarck area.  I was told this is comprised of LIDAR data so it should  be good to go.  I am not responsible for that...it is up to you to ensure that it is indeed LIDAR.

http://bismarck.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3827
Thanks for the info because what I was looking at just wasn't making sense, or at least i hoped that was the case. I couldn't figure out why they were sandbagging when they are supposed to be above 1854 ft plus these lake homes were there in '97 and stayed dry. According to google all the places in question are sitting at 1847 ish making 1854 basically right up to the doorstep of the TG restaurant. What one guy involved told me last night is that they are worried about in inflow pushing water levels up above where they once were as it goes by. I don't know how much that is a possibility, just what i was told. But anyway I'll just keep using google earth  for just getting the jist of things and most importantly for finding access to fishing spots.


It should be easy to figure out property that will need to be sandbagged at Tobacco.  The lake got to the highest point it could in 1997.  If they didn't sandbag then, they don't need to now.  The lake cannot get any more full than what it did in 1997.  If there was more development since then (which I suppose there was) people can still do it by using a level.  Stick a stake at the water line with 1 foot increments.  Go where they will think they need to sandbag and setup some type of system that will give them a shot at the stake.

Think I'll just leave it at that.  I don't want to be responsible.  I know a crude way of doing it but in all honesty it should be easy to figure out as the water level is currently at 1852.40 and the lake can go no more than 1854.4 so I guess do the math.  That's two feet and you should be able to figure out or eyeball two feet by using crude ways of "level" shooting.

Kind of redneck surveyeing...

Right, that's what I was saying when talking to them. At any rate it's their property and I wont argue with them peace of mind can be just as important for them I guess.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

15 Replies | Page 1 of 11 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page
Posted By:
Posted On: 05/27/2011 5:24 PM
869 Views, 15 Comments

Tags: elevation, google, earth, someone, tobacco, garden, wth, anywhere, show, cursor
More Tags: Google, Human InterestEnvironmentTechnology_Internet
Region: North Dakota

Categories: Outdoor Sports
Rate This ForumTopic
  • Currently 0/5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

0/5 (0 votes cast)

You must be signed in to comment on this topic