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100 Replies | Page 5 of 512345 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page

2012 Deer Bow Statistics

Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 11:23 AM | Reply #81 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/20/2012
Location: ND
buckmaster81 Said:
Tim Sandstrom Said:
 Agreed. And easily accomplishable without bait. But that aside, it appears many are picky out in the field given majority do not shoot does. And given the percentage is only in the 30's for success rate. So by default I think we can say more are picky than not. 

I think the NDGF would be more concerned if the numbers went the other way where people are shooting more does. So really, if they are concerned control on archery is needed for herd control I don't see it making sense. It seems they want to provide more buck tags to rifle folks. So really, it isn't about population because the does taken are not significant enough in my opinion.

The 416 mule deer is an interesting number. That could make a big difference if was only happening in small geographic area. Or for that matter whitetail too. Would really like to see where these bow statistics come from unit wise. Do they ask that on the survey?

BAW Said:

solocam Said:
Based on the fact I've shot 4 deer in 14 years of bow hunting, I'd say my chance of filling a bow tag this year is right around 28.5%....I don't think I am far off the norm in this category either so bow success is really not that high and is not a great management tool.

Well you need to quit being so picky. You know if you wanted to kill one for sausage and jerky you would be at 100%.


I have said for years, and still believe that mule deer (archery/rifle) should be a separate tag totally independent of whitetail deer hunting.

as an avid bow hunter and one of the silly guys that chases those mulies around out west, I still don't think that is a terrible Idea, granted im throwing myself under the bus and very seldom have the opportunity to chase mulies around with a bow if something were too happen, but it is quite silly to put mulies and whitetails in the same boat with any sort of tag in North Dakota IMO 

 Problem solving is hunting. It is savage pleasure and we are born to it.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 11:47 AM | Reply #82 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/14/2012
Location: ND
I personally think bowhunters are one of the only things right with the deer hunting system. Think about how much time and prep. it takes to bow hunt, also most of us bowhunters are pickier about which deer we harvest! Limiting archery tags will not help deer heards because  bowhunters are not the problem! The same can not be said about some rifle hunters though, it does not take a bunch of time and preperation to hop in a truck and drive around, shoot at deer from the road and drink beer.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 12:00 PM | Reply #83 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/09/2003
Location: ND
mpski77 Said:
I personally think bowhunters are one of the only things right with the deer hunting system. Think about how much time and prep. it takes to bow hunt, also most of us bowhunters are pickier about which deer we harvest! Limiting archery tags will not help deer heards because  bowhunters are not the problem! The same can not be said about some rifle hunters though, it does not take a bunch of time and preperation to hop in a truck and drive around, shoot at deer from the road and drink beer.

But that's the official sport of ND

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 12:06 PM | Reply #84 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2002
Location: ND
Wile.E.Coyote Said:
Anyone here talking about shooting a deer with a rifle past 300 yards would be in the same boat.

Times change.

And having "unbelievable repeatable" accuracy out to 40 yards takes a lot of practice.

If you don't think so then you and I have VAST differences in what "unbelievable" accuracy is.


I am not so sure we are talking the same amount of changes in tech with the rifles as we have seen in the archery and ML gear over the past 25 yrs.  The first deer I shot at over 300 yds was back in the early to mid 80s while using a rifle built in the early 1950s and sporting a scope from the 60s.  You would probably want to look back past those dates to find when shooting deer at 300 plus yds was a real feat.

Agreed, times do change.  In reading FBO over the years I am uncertain as to which group I am going to annoy the most in a given year, is it the trophy hunter, rifle shooter, or bow hunters...or maybe even PETA.

OK, so you want to split hairs on what I refer to as "unbelievably repeatable" deer killing accuracy with a bow.  I base my assertion on the following personal experience.  Back in the 80s when I first picked up an old recurve, I spent many hours practicing to where I could regularly put 3 out of 3 arrows into a fist sized grouping at 25 yds, I was probably more like 3 out of 5 at 30 yds, and by the time I went out to 40 yds I was happy with 3-4 out of 5 being placed into a 9" paper plate, by the time I went to 50 yds I was glad to hit the plate 1-2 times out of a flight of 5 arrows.  Just always seemed to have a flyer or two at the longer ranges.  As time went on and life got busy, the practice time lessened and I eventually picked up a used, never top of the line, compound. I put a drop away rest and good sights on it and fairly easily got to the point where I could routinely put 3 out of 3 arrows into a fist-sized pattern at 30 yds, 4-5 out of 5 at 40 yds, and the 9" plate was killed 4-5 out of 5 times at 50 yds with good shooting conditions. 

Knowing I put a lot less time and effort into my archery practice, I would be quite surprised if the avid archers on here aren't besting my ranges and accuracy at those ranges.

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 12:11 PM | Reply #85 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/08/2006
Location: ND
I have to add this to this important topic.

This is not an advertisement or even an attempt to make any promises. Just some information for you to ponder.

The North Dakota Bowhunter Association has held many friendly conversations, over the last several years, with the North Dakota Game & Fish Department about these very concerns. The NDBA plays an active role with our bowhunting opportunities.

Having to purchase your archery tag online in 2013 is the result of the NDBA's concern over the Department being able to produce accurate data pertaining to license sales and the associated demographics (Where are these hunters from and where are they hunting). This information will prove to be very useful.

As I stated, the NDBA enjoys a good,friendly relationship with the Department. We meet at least annually and correspond often to keep abreast of the changing issues that can effect our bowhunting opportunities.

That being said. The NDBA has only about 1000 members (or voices). You are seeing that we have nearly 20000 people who are buying the archery tags. the 1000 voices the NDBA uses to work for everyone's future opportunities may not be enough. I am a little worried.

To protect our future archery and bowhunting opportunites, we simply need to carry a stronger voice. A legisture once asked at a committee meeting "Who is this NDBA? How many members do they have?" The NDBA needs more members. The NDBA needs people like you.

As a bowhunter you can join the ranks of those who are concerned about the future of our archery and bowhunting opportunities in North Dakota.

Learn more at www.ndbowhunters.org
"If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it.” Fred Bear
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 12:58 PM | Reply #86 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/20/2012
Location: ND
Allen Said:
Wile.E.Coyote Said:
Anyone here talking about shooting a deer with a rifle past 300 yards would be in the same boat.

Times change.

And having "unbelievable repeatable" accuracy out to 40 yards takes a lot of practice.

If you don't think so then you and I have VAST differences in what "unbelievable" accuracy is.


I am not so sure we are talking the same amount of changes in tech with the rifles as we have seen in the archery and ML gear over the past 25 yrs.  The first deer I shot at over 300 yds was back in the early to mid 80s while using a rifle built in the early 1950s and sporting a scope from the 60s.  You would probably want to look back past those dates to find when shooting deer at 300 plus yds was a real feat.

Agreed, times do change.  In reading FBO over the years I am uncertain as to which group I am going to annoy the most in a given year, is it the trophy hunter, rifle shooter, or bow hunters...or maybe even PETA.

OK, so you want to split hairs on what I refer to as "unbelievably repeatable" deer killing accuracy with a bow.  I base my assertion on the following personal experience.  Back in the 80s when I first picked up an old recurve, I spent many hours practicing to where I could regularly put 3 out of 3 arrows into a fist sized grouping at 25 yds, I was probably more like 3 out of 5 at 30 yds, and by the time I went out to 40 yds I was happy with 3-4 out of 5 being placed into a 9" paper plate, by the time I went to 50 yds I was glad to hit the plate 1-2 times out of a flight of 5 arrows.  Just always seemed to have a flyer or two at the longer ranges.  As time went on and life got busy, the practice time lessened and I eventually picked up a used, never top of the line, compound. I put a drop away rest and good sights on it and fairly easily got to the point where I could routinely put 3 out of 3 arrows into a fist-sized pattern at 30 yds, 4-5 out of 5 at 40 yds, and the 9" plate was killed 4-5 out of 5 times at 50 yds with good shooting conditions. 

Knowing I put a lot less time and effort into my archery practice, I would be quite surprised if the avid archers on here aren't besting my ranges and accuracy at those ranges.



comparing a recurve to a compound is like comparing a rifle to a muzzle loader, they are different weapons... granted the recurve doesn't have its own season but as far as the weapon goes you cant throw recurve and compound in the same category
 Problem solving is hunting. It is savage pleasure and we are born to it.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 2:17 PM | Reply #87 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/04/2007
Location: ND
ttt

"Why does a salmon rise? Why does a small boy cross the street just to kick a tin can?" 
Lee Wulff, The Atlantic Salmon

Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 2:39 PM | Reply #88 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
nd_bowhunter Said:
I have to add this to this important topic.

This is not an advertisement or even an attempt to make any promises. Just some information for you to ponder.

The North Dakota Bowhunter Association has held many friendly conversations, over the last several years, with the North Dakota Game & Fish Department about these very concerns. The NDBA plays an active role with our bowhunting opportunities.

Having to purchase your archery tag online in 2013 is the result of the NDBA's concern over the Department being able to produce accurate data pertaining to license sales and the associated demographics (Where are these hunters from and where are they hunting). This information will prove to be very useful.

EXACTLY my words on this thread and others.  People who think the bow hunters are the cause or need to be regulated FIRST MUST wait for accurate data.  Like I said, I figure a huge majority of people are hunting units within 30 to 40 minutes of larger towns and cities and along river valley habitat.

So for people to start saying they are "starting to understand there may need to be regulation or lottery for bow tags" I find is rather quick judgement without haven't legit numbers.  Where and who (NR versus R) is a very important part of this equation.  In my opinion, the most important.

As I stated, the NDBA enjoys a good,friendly relationship with the Department. We meet at least annually and correspond often to keep abreast of the changing issues that can effect our bowhunting opportunities.

That being said. The NDBA has only about 1000 members (or voices). You are seeing that we have nearly 20000 people who are buying the archery tags. the 1000 voices the NDBA uses to work for everyone's future opportunities may not be enough. I am a little worried.

To protect our future archery and bowhunting opportunites, we simply need to carry a stronger voice. A legisture once asked at a committee meeting "Who is this NDBA? How many members do they have?" The NDBA needs more members. The NDBA needs people like you.

Understood.  But I can write my words and make my phone calls without NDBA.  But for pure numbers game, I will get enrolled.

As a bowhunter you can join the ranks of those who are concerned about the future of our archery and bowhunting opportunities in North Dakota.

Learn more at www.ndbowhunters.org





 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 2:43 PM | Reply #89 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/09/2002
Location: ND
arrowdem Said:


comparing a recurve to a compound is like comparing a rifle to a muzzle loader, they are different weapons... granted the recurve doesn't have its own season but as far as the weapon goes you cant throw recurve and compound in the same category
Huh?  That's like saying you can't compare the utility of a semi-auto rifle and a bolt action.

Maybe we can generate another new idea and have a traditional weapons season.  Where recurve bows and muzzle loaders shooting a cap and ball at most?
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 2:46 PM | Reply #90 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/26/2006
Location: ND
Tim, I think you are right. The only way to get an accurate representation of the deer harvest is a big game registration. Allen mentioned that this would be initially troublesome and I agree, both financially and logistically, but I think the knowledge gained from it would be worth the cost. It would also (hopefully) prevent the NDGF or the public for that matter from doing something stupid without having data to support the change.
Teach a man to fish and he will still vote for the guy who gave him a fish.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 2:59 PM | Reply #91 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/09/2003
Location: ND
Meelosh Said:
Tim, I think you are right. The only way to get an accurate representation of the deer harvest is a big game registration. Allen mentioned that this would be initially troublesome and I agree, both financially and logistically, but I think the knowledge gained from it would be worth the cost. It would also (hopefully) prevent the NDGF or the public for that matter from doing something stupid without having data to support the change.

GASP!!!!! You mean the G&F may make mistakes??? Like 4 years ago when they told me that coyotes only eat dead and crippled deer....

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 3:18 PM | Reply #92 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/20/2003
Location: ND
Let me get this straight,the ND G&F might limit my deer hunting as a resident but yet at the same time give out unlimited nonresident archery deer tags?? 

 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford



 
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 3:45 PM | Reply #93 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 09/03/2010
Location: MT
You guys are funny.  The G&F has data, it just doesn't happen to support your self centered, self serving position.  I'll listen to the G&F over you whiners any day of the week.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 3:48 PM | Reply #94 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/26/2006
Location: ND
Timbuk-2 Said:
You guys are funny.  The G&F has data, it just doesn't happen to support your self centered, self serving position.  I'll listen to the G&F over you whiners any day of the week.
Exactly what data do they have except the number of tags sold and small sample size of hunter reports?

Teach a man to fish and he will still vote for the guy who gave him a fish.
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 3:51 PM | Reply #95 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/27/2007
Location: ND
 
Meelosh Said:
Timbuk-2 Said:
You guys are funny.  The G&F has data, it just doesn't happen to support your self centered, self serving position.  I'll listen to the G&F over you whiners any day of the week.
Exactly what data do they have except the number of tags sold and small sample size of hunter reports?

They're too busy conduction Mt. Lion research to deal with any of this deer nonsense.

 "I'll show you where the bear sh**s in the woods!" ~ Dad
(I still have no clue what it means.)

"You're not really even my son." ~ Dad
(I still don't believe him.)
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 3:59 PM | Reply #96 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/20/2003
Location: ND
Timbuk-2 Said:
You guys are funny.  The G&F has data, it just doesn't happen to support your self centered, self serving position.  I'll listen to the G&F over you whiners any day of the week.

Thats funny.
I had to call to tell them they were nuts to have an early rifle doe season during those hard winters in our area "there were hardly any deer left"  Less than a week later they wanted you to send your tag back in for a refund.

They told me they were holding the early season because of a handful of landowners complaints.... The same guys that plant bait plots and leave standing crops and won't let anyone hunt on their deer farms. Yet complain when the only deer left in the county are living in their hay yards all winter!


 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford



 
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 4:18 PM | Reply #97 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
Meelosh Said:
Timbuk-2 Said:
You guys are funny.  The G&F has data, it just doesn't happen to support your self centered, self serving position.  I'll listen to the G&F over you whiners any day of the week.
Exactly what data do they have except the number of tags sold and small sample size of hunter reports?


I will ask if they have where the archery tags were filled.  That's really all I need to see.

However, as meelosh states, we are going off sample statistics.




 
Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 5:42 PM | Reply #98 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/13/2006
Location: ND

Simple solution to deer issue.  STOP selling doe tags and lower coyote and mountain lion numbers.  This is as simple as it gets.  Also don't hold early rifle doe seasons then blame the winters on the deer herd being gone.

Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 6:10 PM | Reply #99 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
Meelosh Said:
Tim, I think you are right. The only way to get an accurate representation of the deer harvest is a big game registration. Allen mentioned that this would be initially troublesome and I agree, both financially and logistically, but I think the knowledge gained from it would be worth the cost. It would also (hopefully) prevent the NDGF or the public for that matter from doing something stupid without having data to support the change.


Cost is an issue and since the G&F do not get to set license fees funding such a requirement would be priority one. I have talked in length about this with people from the big game div and logistics is a real issue. No doubt you would get a better handle on kill but how much more accurate? 2% 5% 50%? You pick the number because it would be a guess until a season could be compared.

Random sampling are shown to be accurate an cost affective. Tim thinks that everyone should have to fill out a survey, but history shows that without registration an increase actually skews the results because people tend to be less honest than when they sit down and fill out a survey.

My point in saying this is that short of a registration current survey sampling is as accurate and cost affective method that there is!
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: 2012 Deer Bow Statistics
by on 08/13/2013 6:23 PM | Reply #100 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/26/2006
Location: ND
 
Enslow Said:

Simple solution to deer issue.  STOP selling doe tags and lower coyote and mountain lion numbers.  This is as simple as it gets.  Also don't hold early rifle doe seasons then blame the winters on the deer herd being gone.


Lowering coyote numbers? Not that nonsense again. It has been tried and tried and tried and there has never been any success. And you gotta shoot some does. Just not so many. 
Teach a man to fish and he will still vote for the guy who gave him a fish.
100 Replies | Page 5 of 512345 | Top of Page | Bottom of Page
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Posted On: 08/12/2013 09:07 AM
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Tags: deer, bow, 0, statistics, game, fish, department, harvest, archery, season
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Region: North Dakota

Categories: Hunting > Deer Hunting
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