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cattle and deer

by , Posted to on 10/10/2005 7:57 PM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/20/2002
Location: MT
How does cattle effect deer in the same area. Will the deer put up with the cattle. If cattle are moved out will the deer come back in the area. Any info helpfull.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/10/2005 9:03 PM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/30/2004
Location: ND
I don't think that it matters a whole lot to the deer. I have seen lots of big bucks hiding in coulees where there is cattle. It seems like the older bucks know that you cannot shoot at them with the cattle around. I have also known people who bow hunt in pastures with cattle and have good sucess.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/10/2005 9:34 PM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/27/2002
Location: ND
All I can say is get the cattle out. I don't think the deer like the cattle to well. And if the cattle are in there now, they will come back when the cattle are gone
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/10/2005 9:53 PM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/20/2002
Location: MT
Thanks for the reply. I really don't know for sure but I think the deer hate the cattle being around. Like you said some have had good luck with cattle around. I have been told both ways so maybe there will be some more suggestions on it.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/10/2005 11:33 PM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/04/2003
Location: ND
I've had people tell me deer avoid cattle and will stay out of the wooded draws and such,,,,

but I don't believe that ,,,Of all my years of deer hunting,,,,

cows or no cows the deer are hanging out in the coulees,,

I have not seen this to matter much at all

heck many years ago my dad had to wait for a whitetail buck to seperate from the cows so he could get the shot at him,,,,

the buck was standing right with the herd
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 03:38 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/05/2005
Location: SD
for several years down by canton SD there was a sitka blacktail deer in with a herd of cattle he'd go right up the chute onto the truck with them when they moved from pasture to pasture.. that was 3 or 4 years ago
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 08:58 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/16/2004
Location: ND
We have seen that the cattle do affect the deer a little bit in our coulee/pasture. They come back when the cattle are gone. The thing I don't like about the cattle is that they trample/eat all the cover. The bushes are bare by the time they get out. All the grass is short as heck, which I think taller grass holds more deer.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 09:00 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/05/2002
Location: ND
If the deer have a choice they will avoid being around cattle. When the cows move into one section of the pasture, the deer will move to another providing there is similar habitat for them. Late in the year and through winter deer will move in and eat right beside cows but usually they are out of other options at that point. TW
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 09:15 AM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/05/2005
Location: ND
It's not that deer fear cattle or avoid them, but cattle can quickly destroy deer habitat and that will drive the deer out. We have prime deer habitat on our land. Several miles of creek bottom land surrounded by wheat and corn fields. Deer will be everywhere when we are setting up our stands in July and August. However, my grandpa turns cattle loose from September to October and they trample every single blade of grass inside and outside the woods until nothing is left but a thousand piles of cowsh!t. You will not see a deer for miles until about a week or two after the cattle are taken out. Slowly the deer move back in but they are never as thick as they were before the cattle destroyed all the undergrowth.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 10:38 AM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/04/2003
Location: ND
that is true ,, the cattle do raise a lot of heck in the brush , or draws,,

especially if the summer and early fall theres a lot of hot weather,,,
then the cattle live in the shade and around water holes ,,,

during the day,,,, but I guess I have not notice it bother the deer much,,, thats my .2 cents
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 12:05 PM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 09/14/2005
Location: ND
Walked around in a pasture for 2 hours yesterday looking for a good spot for my stand and camera and kicked up 4 deer. This pasture had cattle in it.

Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 2:15 PM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
Diddo on dirty's post.




 
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Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 4:29 PM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 10/24/2003
Location: ND

I dont' want stir up a hornets nest here, but it sounds like overgrazing is the problem dirty. If all your seeing is dung piles, then there are too many cattle. Dung piles should deteriorate within about 2 1/2 weeks time, if not, they are eating the regrowth and getting too much fiber.

Under a good grazing program, deer will typically follow cattle to eat the regrowth anywhere between 3-9 days time. That is what some of our studies showed.

Remember that cattle are grazers and deer are browsers. Cattle will open up heavily grassed areas exposing broadleafs and other plants that deer will readily eat.

They should compliment each other under the right conditions. We have some land that is all woods and hasn't seen cattle in probably 15 years. The trees have gone through a succession and the plants just can't breathe anymore. Either cattle or a good fire was needed to straighten things out to make it a better habitat for deer. It was grazed this summer. Looks very good in there and evidence of more deer is definitely visible already.

Hope this information helps.

Take a Kid Hunting instead of hunting for your kid.

Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 4:42 PM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/29/2003
Location: MN
Good feedback rn,I've always thought of this same question.This is another example what makes this site so good and fun,lots of hands on folks here.And now I no the answer.
Perazzi usa
Benelli usa
Briley Chokes

Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 4:57 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/05/2005
Location: ND
rngesci,

You are 100% correct actually. There are WAY too many cattle in there. They are still in there right now. It's pretty much impossible to talk my grandpa out of putting them in there because he gets pretty good coin for allowing them in (they aren't our cattle, they are some neighbors herd). There are several hundred head of cattle and our creek bottom is not very wide. It is unbelievable deer habitat when it has been left alone and is thin enough that the whole bottom is a natural funnel for deer. It gets good during the rut again when the cows are out, but when they are in the completely destroy the undergrowth. That's the only description I can give. During the hot weather they spend a lot of time in the trees and down at the creek that runs through the trees. If you are standing in the woods in late August you can't see 5 feet in front of you becasue of all the cover and grasses. If you are standing in their right now you can see all the way through the trees, one side to the next (100 yards or so). I'm sure this is an extreme example and maybe under normal circumstances deer and cattle can coexist, but not on our stuff. It's a repeat phenomenon every year and I am fortunate this year to have some other prime stuff to bowhunt on. Before, I was just plain old SOL for the first 2 months of the season.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 8:18 PM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/20/2002
Location: MT
It's really good when you get so many replys on a topic. I guess I have to believe that cattle do make a diff. in the deer surroundings. My thought on it is the cattle move around and disturb the deer. They like there isolation time and cattle just take over there area. Thanks neb
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/11/2005 9:53 PM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 09/07/2005
Location: NE
In western Nebraska I have seen time and again where the deer will start to come out of the hills to the hay fields and would change their trail to avoid moving through the cattle unless the cattle were widely scattered. I have sat in haystacks and watched the cattle to tip-off when the deer were coming to the stacks from my back. Had a nice 5x5 eating out of the stack I was sitting in, but couldn't get turned around for a shot with my bow, all the while the cattle were staring at the deer eating their hay.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/12/2005 08:55 AM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/16/2004
Location: ND
Our pasture holds cattle until around the end of October, which is too close to deer season I think. If we could get the renter to take the cattle out like around the end of September, we probably wouldn't have a happy renter, but do you think that would move the deer in better before gun season?
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/12/2005 09:19 AM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/04/2003
Location: ND
that depends on if the draws have tons of cover ,,,

if its shorter heavier brush like bullberry and that ,,

like where I hunt the cattle disturb it very little,,, depending on the height,,,

cattle do not get down on their bellys and crawl like deer do ,, and of course deer are a lot smaller,,,

calves might go through but not a great deal they don't meander away form the mom to far anyway,,

the farmer I work for off an on when we check cows we are always seeing deer in the draws ,,, whitetails or mulies....
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/12/2005 09:25 AM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/05/2005
Location: ND
I have a feeling the type of land you are talking about is going to weigh in heavily on whether deer are affected by cattle. On our stuff, the cattle simply have nowhere else to go to cool off other than the heart of the creek bottom where the deer are. If the area has a lot of draws, maybe there is enough cover for the cattle and deer to coexist easier.
Re: cattle and deer
by on 10/12/2005 09:33 AM | Reply #20 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 10/24/2003
Location: ND

This is such a touchy subject. We are talking about a farmer/rancher's income, but I'll try and share some rule of thumb information.

Cattle should be grazed typically from June 1st to around the 2nd week of September. All of this can change due to precipitation. Typically from a wildlife perspective, you want cattle to take about 65-70% of the plant material. No more or technically you are overgrazing the desirable plants. This also prevents a monoculture of plants and helps with diversity. Remember that deer are browsers, so they need a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Our native plants really hold their best nutritional value for cattle between those two dates listed above. In drought conditions, it is much less time.

Whether a freeze or snow comes it really doesn't matter, our native plants and trees change based on sunlight and are triggered by the amount of sunlight. So even if a freeze doesn't happen until late October, most of our plants have already stored their carbohydrates and have gone dormant. Hence why you see all the cowpies now that are not breaking up. Too much fiber.

It won't matter if you pull the cattle in July or September, it really depends on how much forage or in this case "habitat" is taken away before you take the cattle out. I have seen some pastures so overgrazed by the middle of July that even if you pulled the cattle then, you wouldn't see anything besides a few meadowlarks.

I have a friend near Washburn. He cell grazes along the Missouri River. On three quarters he runs about 16 head of cattle. Definitely undergrazes his pastures/grasslands, but he has been able to extend his grazing period because of that. He also has more dang deer on there than he can shoot. It seems like after he has moved his cattle from one cell to another, the deer will be found feeding in the pasture the cattle were moved from about 3-4 days afterwards.... depending on precipitation.

In this case it was the opposite of what usually happens. The downfall is we have lost the turkeys now. They moved on us. we are trying to figure out why? Has the wooded areas become too thick now? more habitat for predators? If there are more predators, how come he has so many deer? Lots of questions still to be answered.

Sorry about the long post. Just trying to help out.

Take a Kid Hunting instead of hunting for your kid.

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Posted On: 10/10/2005 7:57 PM
1974 Views, 30 Comments

Tags: cattle, deer, area, effect, moved, helpfull, info
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Region: North Dakota

Categories: Hunting
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