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Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06

by , Posted to on 12/31/2007 08:17 AM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 06/08/2003
Location: ND
I have been researching several calibers as I am in the buying mood for a new rifle. I was just about set on a 7mm-08, but after talking with a "gun specialist" he didn't think the recoil is any different than a .243. I already have a .243 wssm and it is a dandy little gun with some punch, and the recoil is fairly light. Any thoughts about those calibers in comparison via recoil and performance (trajectory, penetration, etc). Also any thoughts on how they compare to the .25-06, meaning is this caliber noticeably 'bigger' (more recoil longer range, etc).

I really looking for a gun that is fun to shoot, can shoot off hand without a benchrest for practice, but big enough to shoot deer with. It may be a gun for my son or daughter 5 years from now. thank you
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 08:47 AM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 06/08/2003
Location: ND
I forgot to mention the .243 wssm will go to one of the kids already. Also from prevois posts It seems like the 7mm-08 has good "take down power" for lack of a better term, but the "specialist" I spoke with was quite adiment that the caliber is pretty much a youth and female caliber. I think he was to opinionated for me, and maybe didn't have the knowledge he thinks he has.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 08:50 AM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/14/2003
Location: ND
I see you keep putting quotations around specialist.  Seems to me you might have a specialist who just sat in on a meeting oriented around talking points.  Horsager and the crew will get you some good information.  In fact, if you search through the gun topics you'll find a talk forum based on the 7mm-08.

Tim Sandstrom




 
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Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 08:51 AM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
You'd have to regularly shoot to 600yds and beyond to see any real performance difference between the 3 cartriges you listed above. The 7-08 would be my 1st choice of the bunch. Load 120gn TSX's to 2900+fps and you set for any critter wandering North America save maybe grizzlies. The recoil is likely to compare to your WSSM. If you're considering having a kid shoot it sometime there are two easy choices. Weatherby Vanguard Youth/Compact comes with both a short stock and a full length stock, just swap it into the short stock when your kids are ready to shoot. Remington 700 is another good option, as one can generally find either a used youth stock or a cheap stock to cut off in some of the outdoor classifieds for less than $50.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 09:54 AM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 10/27/2004
Location: ND
Don't forget about the old .257 Roberts. My uncle loves his.
"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."
"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson


The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson




Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 09:55 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: ND
"Recoil" is more than simple physics! A gun that shoots a larger bullet or the same bullet faster will, according to Sir Isaac Newton have more recoil than ane firing a lighter bullet or the same bullet slower. Simple physics - that doesn't mean anything....much...
But the practical most important part aspect of "recoil" has more to do with gun fit, type of action, noise, muzzleblast (apparant recoil diminishes when you wear good hearing protection, etc.)
From a practical point of view, the apparent or felt recoil, assuming the gun "fits" will be so close to the same for those three calibers and a bunch of others in this category, that you won't be able to tell the difference.
I agree with Horsager, that of the three the 7mm 08 is a great choice and arguably a bit more versatile than the others because of the wider bullet selection available for the 7mm bore. But as far as felt or apparent recoil is concerned there is no practical difference and recoil would be the last criteria to choose your selection.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 10:29 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 06/08/2003
Location: ND
Thanks for the replies so far. I Agree with the gun fit and muzzle noise comments completely. I am a shotgunner at heart and have been dappling in rifles the last 10 years. My first rifle was a used ruger m77 synthetic chambered in 7mm rem mag with a muzzle break cut into the barrel. Now I'm a pretty big guy, but the first shot was apparent this is a man's gun. Even with the muzzle break it kicked like a mule and loud enough to make my head ring for quite a while. Hardly the gun I should have started with, although it was accurate and I took a beautiful 6x6 whitetail with it. My 7mm wsm is an equivalent gun but honestly has half the recoil and half the noise. At one time I was a believer that bigger calibers were always better, but as my hunting skills and accuracy improved I no longer believe that at all, so I,m back to dappling in smaller calibers as arthritis and two rotator cuff tears are catching up with me. In fact I have read the experts like Carmichael, and Petzel shoot 3-4 thousand rounds per year in testing and practice but over 50% are from a .22 rimfire to still get practice without the effects of that much recoil.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 12:27 PM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/03/2007
Location: ND
I own a 7mm-08 and find it a very versatile cartridge. Small enough for coyote yet big enough for moose/elk. Yes
it is on the low end of what I would consider big enough for elk, yet I would not bat an eye if it was what I had to hunt with. The big thing is that it is low enough in recoil for my wife and my buddies daughter to use. Both are currently using 243's and find that the 7mm-08 is very similar in recoil.If you look at the ballistics, it only gives up a couple hundred yards to the 7mm rem mag.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 12/31/2007 8:25 PM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/20/2007
Location: ND
I used a 7mm-08 with a synthetic stock and that sucker can kick. My Grandfather had a 7mm and he said the first time he shot it the recoil was so powerful that it slammed the scope into his forehead and he got a cut that was in the shape of a circle. But I have a 243. and It doesn't kick that much. If I had to pick a weapon for Mostly North Dakota animals I would pick either a 243. wssm, 270., or a 7mm-08.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 12:03 PM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
The 7-08 in an 8#ish package is nearly ideal, especially for a beginner. The rifle is heavy enough to settle down reletively quickly and soak up some recoil but not too heavy to carry a ways. A rifle that's too light, say, under 7# becomes much more difficult to shoot well and the recoil becomes noticeably sharper. The 7-08 with 120's @ 3000fps is dazzling.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 1:55 PM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: ND
This discussion about the 7mm-08 reminds me about the 7mm Mauser that I own. About 25 years ago I bought a 7mm Mauser at Sioux Sporting Goods in Bismarck. The salesman told me that this rifle would work for hunting most everything in the US. I put a Leupold 4 power scope on this and used it for years. One of my friends read somewhere that this caliber was mainly used by women and youth. I had to laugh as I shot many deer with that rifle. I did eventually acquire a 270. There is quite a difference in the amount of kick. My Mauser is not as accurate, but is much easier on the shooter. In many cases, I believe that not being afraid of the kick will make you a better shot. My son now shoots the Mauser and has not had any problems bringing down deer. Actually I am thinking of trading off the 270 for the 7mm-08. Shells may be expensive but it only takes one.
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 5:24 PM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
Roll your own and the price to shoot one caliber or the other (given similar powder charge and bullet construction/weight) becomes largely moot. You'll get more shooting in too because it'll be 1/3-1/2 the cost of factory. Most definately a win/win.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 5:47 PM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/24/2003
Location: ND
when you roll your own to make it "cheaper" though, you need to be up front with yourself that in order to do that, you must prioritize your time away from other fun things in order to sit down and learn all there is to know about rolling your own, and then actually rolling your own correctly and safely takes time as well. Lets not forget the initial cost of all the equipment it takes to roll your own! Doing someting cheaper usually takes money somewhere else doesn't it. And remember, buy this stuff cheap and you will buy it twice. Priority, priority, priority, rolling your own will make you prioritize if you do it to save money and I doubt you save in the end, especially if it makes you shoot more! ! ! !

The arrogance of the present is to forget the wisdom of the past.

Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 6:45 PM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/27/2002
Location: ND
I use a .308 and I don't think the recoil is bad at all. It is a very good big game caliber in my opinion and the ammo isn't expensive as it goes.

Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/01/2008 8:54 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
Buzzard, no arguments from me. Folks have a finite amount of money to spend on ammo/shooting. Most folks are going to spend that amount in it's entirety every year. The guy who's loading his own will be shooting lots more for the same money than the guy buying factory. Days like today, 2 degrees, 20-30MPH wind, and a holiday, those are good days to load ammo. I don't have good luck calling coyotes or catching fish through the ice on windy days, might as well load ammo. It took me roughly 1100rounds of 223rem to have my Dillon 550B paid for in ammo savings. I save roughly .23 per round vs factory and I got the Dillon on a special for $250. That means it took me roughly 3-3.5hrs of loading to pay for the Dillon as last winter I was averaging 12-13min/100 loaded rounds. I expect that press to pay for itself better than tenfold over this coming winter, and that's only 1 caliber, I save exponentially more on 22-250's, 243's, 270's, etc. I started loading my own shells when I was strong enough to push primers with a Lee Auto Prime, I don't know any different.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/02/2008 09:00 AM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: ND
Hey Clay, off the original topic, but do you reload shotgun trap/sporting clay shells? If so, what is your asessment of the economics of it nowadays?
When I and my boys shot a lot of trap I had a Ponsness/Warren 800Bor C and we'd reloaded literally thousands of round of trap shells each year. We even rigged up automatic primer, shot and powder refills for the autofeeders and hoppers and had a hole in the bench leading to a big cardboard box under the bench. With two people, one pulling the lever and the other kept busy refilling the system we could churn out literally hundreds and hundreds per hour, maybe even close to 1000 per hour once we got really organized and into the rhythm!
When the kids left and I pretty well stopped shooting much I sold the reloader and now just buy trap loads over the counter for $4 or $5 a box. Reloading in those days made ecomonic sense and kept the kids busy but it seems that over the counter trap loads, the cheap ones anyway, are even cheaper than the over the counter ones back in the 80's, not even adjusted for inflation.
Just curious what you think of the economics of reloading shot shells nowadays for those budding Olympic wannabee trap/skeet/s clays shooters?
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/02/2008 09:06 AM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: ND
Horsager, You mentioned starting reloading when you were strong enough to squeeze the Lee autoprime!
I'm sure Al got you going in the hunting/shooting game really early, and we'd often brag together about our kids hunting/fishing talents! I'd bet that this is one of the reasons you grew up to be such a fine upstanding individual! Seriously!
Like the old cliche - Teach your kid to hunt and you won't have to hunt for your kid! (Excluding some Saturday nights, anyway! LOL)
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/02/2008 10:36 AM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
Dad's neighbor has that same PW press, and a hole cut in his bench leading to a box to catch loaded shells!

I've been buying shotgun shells for 10yrs or so. I try to find off-season clearance stuff and buy several cases at a time. When a guy can buy 1oz Fiocchi Crushers for $60/case it hardly seems worth the effort to fire up the PW. With shot being $30+/25# bag it's hard to say if you can save any money or not. I can remember how much the target shooters squealed when lead shot went from $12 up to $15 in the late 90's, gawd you'd of thunk we killed their 1st born.

Bob, yep Al had me going early. Took me to MT @ 12 because it was legal to hunt big-game over there. Shot an antelope that year with ammo I'd loaded myself. Spent lots of time in the garage with those red plastic speer cases shooting those black plastic bullet powered by only a primer. That was all fine and dandy until one day I baited a bunch of blackbirds into the garage with catfood and killed them with those black plastic bullets. Mom put the kibosh to that right quick!

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/02/2008 10:47 AM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/16/2001
Location: ND
Yep, I remember those Speer practise bullets, but never thought they'd kill anything other than targets! LOL
After missing some easy pheasants (again) yesterday, I think I'm going to have to stock up on some shotgun shells and get trap and/or sporting clays shooting again next summer! I'm getting too rusty!
Speaking of 7mm-08's Allen's wife (Allison) impressed my wife so much when we went deer hunting one day (one shot, one deer through the heart!) that she is planning to take hunter ed (she shot a lot of gophers on the ranch but never game and such and feels she needs the education) and take up hunting next fall! You've got me convinced on the 7mm-08! We definitely need another rifle in the gun case - or maybe another gun case to hold them all! LOL
And with another shooter in the family, maybe another 20 gauge! And a few more cases of shotgun shells! And another .... LOL
Re: Caliber recoil and performance .243, 7mm-08, .25-06
by on 01/02/2008 10:55 AM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/12/2003
Location: ND
I've got a Vanguard in a youth/short stock. I'll haul it along some week and she can try if you're interrested.

For a shotgun, no question the 391 Beretta is the softest of the bunch.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.


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Posted On: 12/31/2007 08:17 AM
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Tags: recoil, 7mm-08, 0, 25-06, caliber, performance, gun, calibers, mood, researching
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Region: North Dakota

Categories: Hunting > Guns and Ammo - Shotguns, Rifles, Airguns, Handguns
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