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Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers

by , Posted to on 05/22/2008 6:58 PM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/07/2008
Location: ND
I see a lot of people selling black as a combo with ticked and
white and wanting good money i personally did not think black was an accepted color but a fault don't get me wrong a perfect gun dog is my goal am not into show but if my dogs threw any black i would never use them for breeding and you'd never see a pup I'm sure all u people with any black color in your shorthairs may hate on this post but be real your english pointer/shorthairs are not pure. It is what it is not everyone should breed
Barnesdog
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/22/2008 7:59 PM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/24/2004
Location: ND
racist he he -
Stay thirsty my friends
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/22/2008 8:25 PM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/04/2005
Location: ND
This is taken off the AKC website on German Shorthairs--Hope it helps. Here is the link also--http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shorthaired_pointer/


Color
The coat may be of solid liver or a combination of liver and white such as liver and white ticked, liver patched and white ticked, or liver roan. A dog with any area of black, red, orange, lemon or tan, or a dog solid white will be disqualified.
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/22/2008 8:41 PM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/18/2002
Location: ND
barnesdog
You are right in that the color black is a fault and disqualifing color if you are showing the dog. The same is true with the GWP. But!!!! if you research the background of the GSP or GWP which orginated in the European versitale breeds you will see that black in these dogs is an acceptable color. When AKC decided to accept these breeds into their club they elected not to have any black in their standards. There is currently a push within AKC to change this standard. Here is a clip from a German site for the Deutsch Kurzhaar (DK) German Shorthair Pointer.
The DK is athletic in appearance, symmetrical and well proportioned. It projects the appearance of controlled agility and power. The DKs endurance in the field is reflected in form by its deep chest, short angled top line and muscular build. The DKs head is conspicuously noble in appearance yet gender is easily discernable. The eyes are brown and dark, set in a stop-less forehead. The coat is short and thick and its texture feels slightly coarse to the hand.

Colors consist of combinations of brown, black and white. They include solid brown (braun), solid black (schwarz), varying roan and ticked combinations including liver ticked (braunshimmel) or black ticked (schwarzshimmel).

Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/23/2008 07:09 AM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/05/2002
Location: ND
I think the black and white would look interesting. Anyone have a link to some pics. If anyone is looking for a good hunting partner, I have 2 males that are liver and white ticked for sale. 10 weeks old $250 527-0980
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/23/2008 5:55 PM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/07/2008
Location: ND
papabear thank you for the enlightenment i get hard core about my dogs i just love shorthairs and all truly good hunting dogs and harbor bitterness towards people that breed whom have diluted the goldens, cockers , labs , irish setters and also GSP's and so many other hunting dogs It took me a couple of years to select a female for Krieg Fuhren An Der Fasan (to wage a war on the pheasant)
and think I have the perfect combo time will tell If the AKC ok's black or I move to Germany i rescind my statement
Barnesdog
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/24/2008 06:06 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/19/2001
Location: ND
Here is a kennel north of Minot that has black Deutsch Kurzhaar (DK) German Shorthair Pointer.


http://www.vomgansehimmel.com/about.htm
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/24/2008 07:48 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/28/2002
Location: ND
OK, I just gotta ask. If you are not raising the dog for breeding purposes and if you are not going to show the dog (just a hunting dog and nothing else), what difference would it make what color it was? Maybe I am missing something here, but I have heard numerous people on several threads over the years talk about how they despise people breeding dogs that are not true purebreds. A nephew of mine has a mixed breed hunting dog. It is so mixed that you would be hard pressed to call it anything really other than a Mutt - or pehaps one heck of a hunting dog. This dog hunts circles around most of the other dogs we have hunted with. Works great with upland, has no problem jumping in freezing cold water, and will take on a wounded honker like nobody's business. Everyone loves to hunt behind this dog but after the hunt, they still treat the dog and the owner like they have the plague or something because his is not a registered dog. Am I missing something or are we getting away from what the real purpose of a "hunting dog" is all about?
.
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/24/2008 3:37 PM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 09/24/2005
Location: ND
The black color is a throw back to an outcross to the European Black Pointer. The founders of the breed conducted this outcross with hope of darkening the eye and the nose of the GSP. Back in the late 1800's -- early 1900's when this outcross occured; the field testing results of these "black" outcross gsp's did not show the results that the founders of the breed had hoped for -- so the outcrossing was stopped. From the info I have, it is said that the Italians found the black GSP to be rather pleasing to the eye. So I suppose you could say the Italians kept the color viable within the breed.

Today however, the black color is making a comeback. The dogs are testing on par with their liver/white cousins. as far as the AKC is concerned it has been my understanding for some time now that a black GSP can compete for points in field trials/tests; however the show folks are still not viewing the black GSP as being an acceptable dog in the show ring. Their loss IMHO.
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/24/2008 5:17 PM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/19/2001
Location: ND
The kennels I have looked at come right out and say that the DK cannot be AKC registered.Once the dog performs according to the rigors of the German club they can be registered there.So do Field trials allow non AKC registered GSP to compete?
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/24/2008 8:05 PM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/07/2008
Location: ND
thanks for the info Gunnar if a man closes his mind and assumes to know it all he has come to a point of no longer being able to learn and I shall die knowing i didn't know everything but never quit searching for wisdom and to you Sportsman your point is legitimate before I switched to GSP's I was blessed with my first hunting dog as a boy my dad got him from an adoption center at 6 months old a Chesapeake/Chocolate lab cross and I would not trade those 13 years for anything he was a four wheel drive stud but the style of hunting I do know suits the versatility of a shorthair and I agree with you alot of people buy bloodlines and ruin their dogs with their training and handling (or lack there of)
Barnesdog
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 05/25/2008 4:03 PM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 09/24/2005
Location: ND
Gunnar,

The kennels you are looking at either don't know the AKC system or else they want to discourage cross registration of their dogs. Fact of the matter: Sometime between 1925 and 1930 Dr. Charles Thorton (from Montana) imported a female DK from Austria. Once in the US he applied for AKC registration under the name "German Shorthaired Pointer". His first attempt was denied. His second in 1930 was approved. So the long and short of it is, yes, the DK can be registered in the AKC. The process involves a copy of the foriegn registration papers, a certified three generation pedigree, a clear photo of the dog and your application fee. Yes, it can be a pain, but it certainly can be done!
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/23/2008 7:31 PM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/19/2003
Location: ND
my Nikita is a 1-yr old black/white ticked German Wirehaired Pointer. She is a purebred and is registered with the AKC. Other posters are correct: she can't be a show dog, color still disqualifies her, although that is changing with the politics of dog-show-dom.
i have a brittany, too. And while she is a flat-out great bird dog, out-hunting many other breeds over the past years, i have no doubt that Kita will be just as productive. man, she can run! and smart? wow. training is really easy.
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/23/2008 8:41 PM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/06/2008
Location: ND
The GSP can be registered with The Kennel Club of Great Britian (the AKC's counterpart) being black or black ticked. I wonder why the AKC doesn't follow their guidelines like they do with most other breeds.


Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/23/2008 9:30 PM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/28/2001
Location: ND
Seriously, who cares what color it is as long as it points roosters? When I take my GSP fishing with me she jumps out of the boat to chase my crankbait every time I cast it. Does this quirk make her an unofficial GSP?

"Guns cause crime like fly's cause garbage"

Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/24/2008 3:12 PM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/19/2003
Location: ND
hey pro v1 - that quirk shouldn't make her an unofficial GSP, but it might make her the unofficial 'largest mammal taken on a crankbait in ND' winner on the Whopper records! that is hilarious! i was worried about my GWP taking to water, my Brittany isn't too excited about getting wet (OK, don't need all you Brit daddies telling me how they love water - i know many do, mine doesn't) but my GWP loves to retrieve from water. i have to try the 'fishing rod technique', as it sounds easier than throwing bumpers!
Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/24/2008 7:05 PM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 12/28/2001
Location: ND
Onpoint, most people swear my gsp is part fish. I was out at my lake cabin this summer and she outswam my neighbors lab all day long! Needless to say he wasn't very happy. She also loves to jump off the dock when I throw her toy. I would like to enter her in one of those long jump competitions if they ever have one close to Bis. I know she jumps close to 20'.

"Guns cause crime like fly's cause garbage"

Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/24/2008 9:08 PM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/06/2008
Location: ND
Pro V1, and your GSP would be taking second place to my ESS. Can you venture a guess as to where the Springer Spaniel came by it's name?


Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/25/2008 05:58 AM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/07/2008
Location: ND
mod1220ga

Actually I understand the Springer got its name as a result of its flushing ability not its ability to jump (if that is what you implied).

I will have to look for the source of that knowledge to verify.

Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/25/2008 9:58 PM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/06/2008
Location: ND
Yes, the Springer came by their name by their ability to flush or "spring" game. That's the official reasoning but if you've ever watched a Springer in a field with high cover, you would think their legs were made of springs because of the way the "hop". Most Springers that I've owned or been around have been excellent jumpers. I've never done any serious training with my current ESS but I do run him off the dock at the Spillway Pond and he'll do 18'+ with no help from me. By help I mean tossing a ball or stick with the proper timing.


Re: Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers
by on 09/26/2008 8:33 PM | Reply #20 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: ND
AKC is definately against black but the Deutsch Kurtzhaar and Deutsch Drahthaar Vereins always maintained the black to keep the dark pigment. AKC's distain for black extends to the brittanies as well. The real travisty is not in changing the color standard but in sacrificing approximately 10% of the Deutsch gene pool and nearly 50% of the brittany pool. Since the field trials do not care about color my black and white brittany has earned a field trail champion title and is a NAVHDA UT prize I.
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Posted On: 05/22/2008 6:58 PM
6742 Views, 28 Comments

Tags: black, color, german, shorthaired, pointers, people, wanting, selling, money, wrong
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Region: North Dakota

Categories: Hunting > Hunting Dogs
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