Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers

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barnesdog's picture
barnesdog
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Black as a color in German Shorthaired Pointers

I see a lot of people selling black as a combo with ticked and
white and wanting good money i personally did not think black was an accepted color but a fault don't get me wrong a perfect gun dog is my goal am not into show but if my dogs threw any black i would never use them for breeding and you'd never see a pup I'm sure all u people with any black color in your shorthairs may hate on this post but be real your english pointer/shorthairs are not pure. It is what it is not everyone should breed

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SHORTHAIRSRUS
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racist he he -

Stay thirsty my friends

PheasantSlayer
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This is taken off the AKC website on German Shorthairs--Hope it helps. Here is the link also--http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shorthaired_pointer/

Color
The coat may be of solid liver or a combination of liver and white such as liver and white ticked, liver patched and white ticked, or liver roan. A dog with any area of black, red, orange, lemon or tan, or a dog solid white will be disqualified.

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barnesdog
You are right in that the color black is a fault and disqualifing color if you are showing the dog. The same is true with the GWP. But!!!! if you research the background of the GSP or GWP which orginated in the European versitale breeds you will see that black in these dogs is an acceptable color. When AKC decided to accept these breeds into their club they elected not to have any black in their standards. There is currently a push within AKC to change this standard. Here is a clip from a German site for the Deutsch Kurzhaar (DK) German Shorthair Pointer.
The DK is athletic in appearance, symmetrical and well proportioned. It projects the appearance of controlled agility and power. The DKs endurance in the field is reflected in form by its deep chest, short angled top line and muscular build. The DKs head is conspicuously noble in appearance yet gender is easily discernable. The eyes are brown and dark, set in a stop-less forehead. The coat is short and thick and its texture feels slightly coarse to the hand.

Colors consist of combinations of brown, black and white. They include solid brown (braun), solid black (schwarz), varying roan and ticked combinations including liver ticked (braunshimmel) or black ticked (schwarzshimmel).

mbabeck
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I think the black and white would look interesting. Anyone have a link to some pics. If anyone is looking for a good hunting partner, I have 2 males that are liver and white ticked for sale. 10 weeks old $250 527-0980

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papabear thank you for the enlightenment i get hard core about my dogs i just love shorthairs and all truly good hunting dogs and harbor bitterness towards people that breed whom have diluted the goldens, cockers , labs , irish setters and also GSP's and so many other hunting dogs It took me a couple of years to select a female for Krieg Fuhren An Der Fasan (to wage a war on the pheasant)
and think I have the perfect combo time will tell If the AKC ok's black or I move to Germany i rescind my statement

Barnesdog

Gunnar
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Here is a kennel north of Minot that has black Deutsch Kurzhaar (DK) German Shorthair Pointer.

http://www.vomgansehimmel.com/about.htm

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OK, I just gotta ask. If you are not raising the dog for breeding purposes and if you are not going to show the dog (just a hunting dog and nothing else), what difference would it make what color it was? Maybe I am missing something here, but I have heard numerous people on several threads over the years talk about how they despise people breeding dogs that are not true purebreds. A nephew of mine has a mixed breed hunting dog. It is so mixed that you would be hard pressed to call it anything really other than a Mutt - or pehaps one heck of a hunting dog. This dog hunts circles around most of the other dogs we have hunted with. Works great with upland, has no problem jumping in freezing cold water, and will take on a wounded honker like nobody's business. Everyone loves to hunt behind this dog but after the hunt, they still treat the dog and the owner like they have the plague or something because his is not a registered dog. Am I missing something or are we getting away from what the real purpose of a "hunting dog" is all about?

.

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The black color is a throw back to an outcross to the European Black Pointer. The founders of the breed conducted this outcross with hope of darkening the eye and the nose of the GSP. Back in the late 1800's -- early 1900's when this outcross occured; the field testing results of these "black" outcross gsp's did not show the results that the founders of the breed had hoped for -- so the outcrossing was stopped. From the info I have, it is said that the Italians found the black GSP to be rather pleasing to the eye. So I suppose you could say the Italians kept the color viable within the breed.

Today however, the black color is making a comeback. The dogs are testing on par with their liver/white cousins. as far as the AKC is concerned it has been my understanding for some time now that a black GSP can compete for points in field trials/tests; however the show folks are still not viewing the black GSP as being an acceptable dog in the show ring. Their loss IMHO.

Gunnar
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The kennels I have looked at come right out and say that the DK cannot be AKC registered.Once the dog performs according to the rigors of the German club they can be registered there.So do Field trials allow non AKC registered GSP to compete?

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thanks for the info Gunnar if a man closes his mind and assumes to know it all he has come to a point of no longer being able to learn and I shall die knowing i didn't know everything but never quit searching for wisdom and to you Sportsman your point is legitimate before I switched to GSP's I was blessed with my first hunting dog as a boy my dad got him from an adoption center at 6 months old a Chesapeake/Chocolate lab cross and I would not trade those 13 years for anything he was a four wheel drive stud but the style of hunting I do know suits the versatility of a shorthair and I agree with you alot of people buy bloodlines and ruin their dogs with their training and handling (or lack there of)

Barnesdog

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Gunnar,

The kennels you are looking at either don't know the AKC system or else they want to discourage cross registration of their dogs. Fact of the matter: Sometime between 1925 and 1930 Dr. Charles Thorton (from Montana) imported a female DK from Austria. Once in the US he applied for AKC registration under the name "German Shorthaired Pointer". His first attempt was denied. His second in 1930 was approved. So the long and short of it is, yes, the DK can be registered in the AKC. The process involves a copy of the foriegn registration papers, a certified three generation pedigree, a clear photo of the dog and your application fee. Yes, it can be a pain, but it certainly can be done!

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my Nikita is a 1-yr old black/white ticked German Wirehaired Pointer. She is a purebred and is registered with the AKC. Other posters are correct: she can't be a show dog, color still disqualifies her, although that is changing with the politics of dog-show-dom.
i have a brittany, too. And while she is a flat-out great bird dog, out-hunting many other breeds over the past years, i have no doubt that Kita will be just as productive. man, she can run! and smart? wow. training is really easy.

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The GSP can be registered with The Kennel Club of Great Britian (the AKC's counterpart) being black or black ticked. I wonder why the AKC doesn't follow their guidelines like they do with most other breeds.

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Seriously, who cares what color it is as long as it points roosters? When I take my GSP fishing with me she jumps out of the boat to chase my crankbait every time I cast it. Does this quirk make her an unofficial GSP?

"LIVE LIFE AT FULL DRAW"

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on-point
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hey pro v1 - that quirk shouldn't make her an unofficial GSP, but it might make her the unofficial 'largest mammal taken on a crankbait in ND' winner on the Whopper records! that is hilarious! i was worried about my GWP taking to water, my Brittany isn't too excited about getting wet (OK, don't need all you Brit daddies telling me how they love water - i know many do, mine doesn't) but my GWP loves to retrieve from water. i have to try the 'fishing rod technique', as it sounds easier than throwing bumpers!

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Onpoint, most people swear my gsp is part fish. I was out at my lake cabin this summer and she outswam my neighbors lab all day long! Needless to say he wasn't very happy. She also loves to jump off the dock when I throw her toy. I would like to enter her in one of those long jump competitions if they ever have one close to Bis. I know she jumps close to 20'.

"LIVE LIFE AT FULL DRAW"

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Pro V1, and your GSP would be taking second place to my ESS. Can you venture a guess as to where the Springer Spaniel came by it's name?

whitesmoke
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mod1220ga

Actually I understand the Springer got its name as a result of its flushing ability not its ability to jump (if that is what you implied).

I will have to look for the source of that knowledge to verify.

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mod1220ga
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Yes, the Springer came by their name by their ability to flush or "spring" game. That's the official reasoning but if you've ever watched a Springer in a field with high cover, you would think their legs were made of springs because of the way the "hop". Most Springers that I've owned or been around have been excellent jumpers. I've never done any serious training with my current ESS but I do run him off the dock at the Spillway Pond and he'll do 18'+ with no help from me. By help I mean tossing a ball or stick with the proper timing.

pwax
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AKC is definately against black but the Deutsch Kurtzhaar and Deutsch Drahthaar Vereins always maintained the black to keep the dark pigment. AKC's distain for black extends to the brittanies as well. The real travisty is not in changing the color standard but in sacrificing approximately 10% of the Deutsch gene pool and nearly 50% of the brittany pool. Since the field trials do not care about color my black and white brittany has earned a field trail champion title and is a NAVHDA UT prize I.

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nice job, pwax. takes a good dog and great training to accomplish that - no matter the color. it is a real travisty that the political heavyweights in dog registry can disregard the obvious.

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I recently acquired a blk and white 7 month old gsp, that come from Wildspur Kennels in Emerado Nd. He is one of the best looking (IMO) and well behaved dogs that I have ever owned. I don't think he'll be quite ready for next weekend, but will definitely be out in the field on a check cord.

A-La-Round Kennels
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I Have a solid black femal gsp. She is the mellowest dog I have ever owned in the house and in the field she is amazing. She is an all around gsp, does everything from water fowling (and dock jumping), to upland hunting, to fur tracking (rabbits and even coyotes).
It is true she can not show in the AKC conformation ring even though she is AKC registered (but can compete in all other events from hunting, to obediance, to CGC, ect...). She can however show in the conformation rings for the the IABCA and the UKC and has obtained her International Champion Title from IABCA. 
She is a pleasure to have around and I am more then excited to see what her first litter this summer will be like.
Int'l CH CCK A-La-Round Leyna Von CinderDock Jumping 21 feet

Lacy
A-La-Round Kennels
www.a-la-roundkennels.com

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That's a purdy purdy girl--yes she is a good girl!!

 Nuke the Whales

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pwax.

Isn't your Britt a French Brittany? Even though the origins are the same, the American Brittany has pretty much evolved on its own due to the original stock brought over from Europe. I am not sure that it is just AKC that does not like the black color. To be fair it is just a color but this does distinguish the different breeds. I go a long way back in the Brittany field. I have had some great Britts that certainly would have done well in field trials. None of them would have been great show dogs. But Brittany people have made great efforts to breed the dual champion concept.  So far black is not an option. But do not fear I do like what I see and hear about those French Brittanies. I may even get one someday. But don't critisize AKC over the color. I would say be proud of your dog's origins and try to protect the uniqueness of its breed.  It is well worth the time.


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Hey A la Round - does she go get a beer out of the cooooler for ya too!!!  No mellowness here   If they dont shred a truck seat when you are in the store; chew a vacuum hose; tear up the garage; dig into garbage and spread it all over; run like cheetah;  .......................................... they aint a shorthair in my opinion.   JK

Stay thirsty my friends

BIGFISHERMAN2009
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this is my personal experiance with a black german short-hair, I WOULD NEVER OWN ONE!!! hard to train, NEVER listen and ugly looking

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big erman2009 is a racist.  Come on now - just how big of a boy are ya ----- hard to train - I bet your old lady says that same thing about you.  

Stay thirsty my friends