anti-baiting

skoalongcut Said:

You can never find a dead horse when you need one.  By the way, I am a chronic master baiter...

skoalongcut Said:

You can never find a dead horse when you need one.  By the way, I am a chronic master baiter...

Andyt11 Said:

GNF believes that baiting can spread disease through siliva or scat/urine from a carrying deer to non carrying deer...because it can.  Natural congregation during winter months obviously increases risks of disease spreading.  With that said unnatural congregration (baiting) + natural congregation = increases the risk of disease spreading for longer period of time and involves larger amount of animals than just natural congregation.  This leads to higher rates of diseases possible being spread.  And from that comes the idea of why GNF would consider banning areas with proven disease. 

When a disease carring deer is naturally feeding with other non carrying deer in a field (for example) the chances of disease passing is drastically lower than if deer are congrated together over a bait site.

Now if there are no disease carrying deer there is absolutely no problem with baiting, but if there is a carrying deer feeding at the bait the chances that the disease is spread over bait is much more likely than if the deer are feeding in a 100 acre alfalfa field.

BringingTheRain Said:
Baiting isnt the only thing they could take away. They could also ban food plots. Or, they could just not even bother, because it will make no difference. This is real world here, not some lab. Its only common sense that a field with a 200-500 deer or even one with just 25-50 day after day and night after night; is worse than a pale of corn and 1-5 deer ever once in awhile. The thing with the game and fish, and i know quite a few people that work there, is that they feel its just cheating. This CWD thing is just an excuse. Seriously, if they want to reduce the chances of deer coming in contact with other deer.... along with banning baiting, they better quit planting food plots on wildlife "management" land. I mean, its only common sense right?. ?But they'll never quit planting, a third of the gf wouldnt have a job anymore.

HUNTNFISHND Said:
Andy,

When they're all drinking out of the same water hole, what difference does it make?

If this was about disease, the GNF wouldn't use intercept feeding, or allow other wildlife feeding, such as pheasant feeders or back yard bird feeders. Why no ban on those activities? Why no stringent rules on ag practices where deer feeding and mingling is occurring?
 
Has other states bans on baiting curbed their disease problems? If it had we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with!

Andyt11 Said:

BringingTheRain Said:
Baiting isnt the only thing they could take away. They could also ban food plots. Or, they could just not even bother, because it will make no difference. This is real world here, not some lab. Its only common sense that a field with a 200-500 deer or even one with just 25-50 day after day and night after night; is worse than a pale of corn and 1-5 deer ever once in awhile. The thing with the game and fish, and i know quite a few people that work there, is that they feel its just cheating. This CWD thing is just an excuse. Seriously, if they want to reduce the chances of deer coming in contact with other deer.... along with banning baiting, they better quit planting food plots on wildlife "management" land. I mean, its only common sense right?. ?But they'll never quit planting, a third of the gf wouldnt have a job anymore.

The reason baiting would be banned and not food plots is because food plots are not congregation.  sure it lures deer into a general area depending on acreage size, but not a 6x6 foot area that all the deer are sticking thier noses into...

Andyt11 Said:

I
Common sense..if you have a group of people and only one person is sick.  If everyone is sitting away from eachother eating off of thier own plate using thier own fork, the chances of someone new developing the sickness is fairly low.  Now if you have everyone sitting in a circle around one plate all using the same fork, the chances of multiple new people developing the sickness is very very likely.  This is because all the healthy indivuals are coming in contact with the sickness much more often and much more directly than if they are all spread out.

pigsticker Said:

Andyt11 Said:

I
Common sense..if you have a group of people and only one person is sick.  If everyone is sitting away from eachother eating off of thier own plate using thier own fork, the chances of someone new developing the sickness is fairly low.  Now if you have everyone sitting in a circle around one plate all using the same fork, the chances of multiple new people developing the sickness is very very likely.  This is because all the healthy indivuals are coming in contact with the sickness much more often and much more directly than if they are all spread out.

How about when it's not even cold out and  the same group of people are sharing a bowl of "popcorn" that a farmer or rancher stored on the ground becuase his bins are full. Does that not count because it's AG practice or because they all aren't sharing the same fork?

Why are the hunters, and only the HUNTERS being targeted for this propaganda garbage???

Andyt11 Said:

BringingTheRain Said:
Baiting isnt the only thing they could take away. They could also ban food plots. Or, they could just not even bother, because it will make no difference. This is real world here, not some lab. Its only common sense that a field with a 200-500 deer or even one with just 25-50 day after day and night after night; is worse than a pale of corn and 1-5 deer ever once in awhile. The thing with the game and fish, and i know quite a few people that work there, is that they feel its just cheating. This CWD thing is just an excuse. Seriously, if they want to reduce the chances of deer coming in contact with other deer.... along with banning baiting, they better quit planting food plots on wildlife "management" land. I mean, its only common sense right?. ?But they'll never quit planting, a third of the gf wouldnt have a job anymore.

The reason baiting would be banned and not food plots is because food plots are not congregation.  sure it lures deer into a general area depending on acreage size, but not a 6x6 foot area that all the deer are sticking thier noses into...

HUNTNFISHND Said:
Andy,

When they're all drinking out of the same water hole, what difference does it make?

If this was about disease, the GNF wouldn't use intercept feeding, or allow other wildlife feeding, such as pheasant feeders or back yard bird feeders. Why no ban on those activities? Why no stringent rules on ag practices where deer feeding and mingling is occurring?
 
Has other states bans on baiting curbed their disease problems? If it had we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with!

Huntnfish, you know i guess im really not sure about if disease is spead though water or how long it can live in water, but what i do know is that deer water in different spots fairly often.  Also a water hole is another thing that gnf cant ban or control, kind of like winter congegation, but still banning baiting reduces the chances of spreading disease no matter how many way you can think that the disease can be spread other than baiting.  The only different is gnf can control baiting.

As for pheasants and other birds i guess im not sure again.  I would venture to say that honestly we notice more so if 100 deer die rather than 100 pheasants.  Also i havent heard of any diseases in pheasants that they can spread to eachother that could drastically reduce a population in a short amount of time.

As for other states problems im not up to date with them wheather regarding # of diseased carrying deer, baiting rules, and if the rules were implemented before or after disease spreading.  If you have examples i guess id like to hear them just to see what other states are doing.

All i know if gnf is out to prevent disease spreading they are going to ban anything that might lead to the spread of disease they can.  And all they really can control is intentional unnatural congregation of deer. So anywhere that cwd or tb pops up, there goes baiting for the hunters.

Andyt11 Said:

BringingTheRain Said:
Baiting isnt the only thing they could take away. They could also ban food plots. Or, they could just not even bother, because it will make no difference. This is real world here, not some lab. Its only common sense that a field with a 200-500 deer or even one with just 25-50 day after day and night after night; is worse than a pale of corn and 1-5 deer ever once in awhile. The thing with the game and fish, and i know quite a few people that work there, is that they feel its just cheating. This CWD thing is just an excuse. Seriously, if they want to reduce the chances of deer coming in contact with other deer.... along with banning baiting, they better quit planting food plots on wildlife "management" land. I mean, its only common sense right?. ?But they'll never quit planting, a third of the gf wouldnt have a job anymore.

The reason baiting would be banned and not food plots is because food plots are not congregation.  sure it lures deer into a general area depending on acreage size, but not a 6x6 foot area that all the deer are sticking thier noses into...

HUNTNFISHND Said:
Andy,

When they're all drinking out of the same water hole, what difference does it make?

If this was about disease, the GNF wouldn't use intercept feeding, or allow other wildlife feeding, such as pheasant feeders or back yard bird feeders. Why no ban on those activities? Why no stringent rules on ag practices where deer feeding and mingling is occurring?
 
Has other states bans on baiting curbed their disease problems? If it had we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with!

Huntnfish, you know i guess im really not sure about if disease is spead though water or how long it can live in water, but what i do know is that deer water in different spots fairly often.  Also a water hole is another thing that gnf cant ban or control, kind of like winter congegation, but still banning baiting reduces the chances of spreading disease no matter how many way you can think that the disease can be spread other than baiting.  The only different is gnf can control baiting.

As for pheasants and other birds i guess im not sure again.  I would venture to say that honestly we notice more so if 100 deer die rather than 100 pheasants.  Also i havent heard of any diseases in pheasants that they can spread to eachother that could drastically reduce a population in a short amount of time.

As for other states problems im not up to date with them wheather regarding # of diseased carrying deer, baiting rules, and if the rules were implemented before or after disease spreading.  If you have examples i guess id like to hear them just to see what other states are doing.

All i know if gnf is out to prevent disease spreading they are going to ban anything that might lead to the spread of disease they can.  And all they really can control is intentional unnatural congregation of deer. So anywhere that cwd or tb pops up, there goes baiting for the hunters.

Andyt11 Said:
As for pheasants and other birds i guess im not sure again.  I would venture to say that honestly we notice more so if 100 deer die rather than 100 pheasants.  Also i havent heard of any diseases in pheasants that they can spread to eachother that could drastically reduce a population in a short amount of time.

Most of you guys bring up some good points that I havent thought about before, and thats what this is all about.  Its a discussion forum.  Some people just use this as a bashing attempt on other ppl to make themselves feel better.  That really proves a lot about a man who can say whatever he wants over the internet with a fake user name and no pictures of himself.  If you want devote something to the conversation, awesome, hopefully its something we can all think about or learn from, but dont chime in just to take shots at other ppl.  Whatever happen to common courtesy on this planet, and honestly im guilty of it too at times.

As the for the ppl who do bring up good points, you know its kind of opening my eyes to other issues that need to be addressed also.  I am just stuck on this being a disease issue with strickly baiting being the source of the problem.  But if baiting restrictions are altered because of disease, then other measures need to be put in place to account for other disease tranferring issues also.