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A different Devils Lake perspective

by , Posted to on 05/10/2011 08:06 AM | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/08/2003
Location: ND

Hi everyone,


 


I wanted to try and get a different perspective on everything going on in the Devils lake basin. I understand on this site there has been a lot of rock throwing and “rights” this and “rights” that in regards to access and fishing. I was up there the last four days and with being a business owner that depends on Devils Lake I think I can say that I am highly interested in keeping the fishing opportunities but also can see some of the frustration on other business owner, farmers, and resident’s faces. I say some of the frustration because I got a good hunch that unless you are living through this, there is no way anyone could understand the pain and loss these folks are going through. You might say I live in Fargo, Jamestown, Grand forks ect and I have experienced flooding and true, you have, and my heart goes out to you but the one main difference is your water went away after a while, theirs isn’t. It is locked in a basin where walls are just lifted and more land is left to the flooding waters. Residents are dealing with access issues of their own, such that,  am I even going to be able to get back to my house when I leave work; knowing that if they can’t and a road doesn’t get raised here or there, they lose the house, land, belongings and everything else. I know for a fact, people have moved campers into Devils lake just for this reason, if they can’t get home they will have a place to stay. There has been a lot of bashing on farmers, imagine this. The 100,000 acre farm has been in your family for years, providing a means of work and in some years, barely putting bread on the table, other years I am sure have been banner but you have always took the good with the bad. Now, Mother Nature unleashes the wrath of water and the lake begins to rise but not to worry, the Corps is diligently studying it and will soon find a solution to save what you have left 7 plus years ago. Fast forward to today, you’re down to 10,000 acres and still trying to put bread on the table, lake is still rising, Corps is still supposedly thinking. Tax bill is due on that 100,000 acres, do you pay it so you still own the land that is making you nothing in hopes that you  still have a farm if the water levels go down or do you default and let the state take over that land? The business owner that is near the lake, you look at these Resorts and think, wow, what a cash cow they got going on here, but with the rising lake waters they lose more and more land and have to pay out more and more to try and keep what they have left. Keep in mind, some resorts use to be farms that lost nearly everything once, tried to turn lemons into lemonade by going with a resort and now are slowing losing that. Who do all these people in the region turn to for help? City doesn’t have a lot of money, county is broke, and the state is starting to push a little. Has the President declared a disaster area and opened up federal funds, oh wait their broke too. Do you depend on FEMA for a buyout, insurance if you can still afford the premiums? How about the Corps?


 


I know for a fact that I have not even scratched the surface with what I have wrote and what people are feeling, I don’t think that you can put that into words but my point in writing this is for us sportsman that uses the Devils Lake Basin as an outdoor recreation outlet as we should, need to have some compassion and understand what these folks are going through. Next time you’re up in that area, I challenge you to take 10 minutes with someone who lives in the area and just listen, they need to vent in a constructive manner and you will receive a better understanding  what is truly happening in their lives and who knows you might even make a new friend in the process.

 

Good Luck and Good Fishin'

Eric T


Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 08:11 AM | Reply #1 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/05/2011
Location: ND

Im on a mission, Im goin fishin!!

Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 08:28 AM | Reply #2 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/21/2007
Location: ND
You are absolutely right Eric, thanks for your post. There is alot of flooding going on right now all over the US, which will diminish the severity of DL's plight in the rest of the nation's eyes. Which is very unfortunate. What's the answer or plan to significantly remove water from the basin while affecting the least amount of people? There needs to be some sound brainstorming going on with a plan and then get enough people and government entities behind it to make it happen. The lake isn't going to wait much longer before it flows like it did in past history.
"A true friend is one who overlooks your failures and tolerates your sucesses"
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 08:31 AM | Reply #3 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/30/2002
Location: ND
Spot on Walynut!
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 08:40 AM | Reply #4 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 10/21/2009
Location: ND
Well said.  Mother nature has not been kind to you folks up there.

"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."

Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 08:52 AM | Reply #5 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/09/2007
Location: ND
Good post. I would hate to be in their shoes.
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:08 AM | Reply #6 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/12/2003
Location: ND

Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:11 AM | Reply #7 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/30/2002
Location: ND
The thing that is so maddening to all locals up here is the fix for this whole flooding issue would be so simple. When a person goes to the Tolna Coulee and actually sees where this lake will flow out naturally it is mind boggling to think about the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been spent on road raisings, buyouts, etc.

The corps should have got a control structure for a controlled flow out the Tolna Coulee 10 years ago. If the levels could have been kept near 1446-1450, I think most people up here could live with those levels. It is now too late with the lake fastly approaching 1455. It is an absolute shame to see the damage that is being done on infrastructure basin wide up here as well as the agriculture demise of many producers. Such a shame that some of the best possible years as far as commodity prices go are being taken away due to water for local producers.
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:17 AM | Reply #8 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/12/2003
Location: ND
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:42 AM | Reply #9 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 07/04/2009
Location: ND
If this problem is left to MOTHER NATURE, to solve, it is not going to be good.When this monster finally breaks thru.KISS Valley city,Lisbon,And most of the intra-structe on the Sheyenne river all the way to the Red River,and maybe beyond ,GOOD-BYE
KENNYBOB IS BACK!!!
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:46 AM | Reply #10 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 08/31/2005
Location: ND
I'm sure most of you have seen this but for those who have not....

vimeo.com/13303875



Virtual tour of Tolna Coulee from l k on Vimeo.




brindle is as brindle does
 

Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 09:52 AM | Reply #11 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/07/2002
Location: ND
I have family friends who farmed two miles away and their home is under 30 feet of water.  The whole family farm is gone.  They had to start over in life with their savings and move careers at age 55.  Sucks.  I understand the frustration.  But that still does not give anybody any right to stop somebody from fishing on a boat on water that once covered your land.  Yes I wish these people could be compensated for people fishing on their land some how.... but there is just no way to do that.  People have the legal right to fish it....
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 10:10 AM | Reply #12 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 03/03/2009
Location: nd
a perspective on shore fishing the region. somewhat in response to some of the other threads from this spring, but still fits here.

some people dont "get it". landowners are not asking to be compensated for fishing OVER the top of their flooded grounds. they are sick of people, in AND out of staters alike blocking roads and accesses to fields and their HOMES day in and day out for both getting to work in the field to make money and getting home to their families. tearing up the barely travelable road left to homes, leaving garbage on the country side they live on. they are not anti-fishing, they are not anti-fun, what they are is anti-disrespectful people and i for one dont blame them. i choose not to give them one more headache in their already stressed out situation. there are literally thousands of options for shorefishing in our fine community. it IS without question a shorefishermans paradise, some of the best in the country. do a little exploring, get off the beaten path, have some fun finding your own "secret spot",  dont be scared of walking a little bit to do so. 
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 10:21 AM | Reply #13 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 04/18/2002
Location: ND
Eric, you are close to spot on, but Mother Nature is not the problem. Lets start with The EPA. They would not allow us to start draining when we realized there was a major problem. Minnesota whinned like a stuck pig when we wanted to start draining. Manatoba said no unless we put in a filtering system, which is understandable. Richard Betting and the People to Save the Sheyene still haven't figured out they are history fi it flows out on its own. But then again they know The Feds will never allow a natural flow in the Tolna Coulee.Armor the coulee, but to what elevation. Maybe that is why the Roads are being built up to an elevation of 1475 and the natural out flow is 1458. Um!!!!!!  But now with the two proposed outlets going full steam it is supposed to take off one foot of water a year. Lets see close to three feet is expected this year alone. Oh weel Ive got get outside and fill some more sandbags. Maybe Mr. Betting would like to come up and help some of us.
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 10:30 AM | Reply #14 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 01/08/2003
Location: ND
pokey Said:
Eric, you are close to spot on, but Mother Nature is not the problem. Lets start with The EPA. They would not allow us to start draining when we realized there was a major problem. Minnesota whinned like a stuck pig when we wanted to start draining. Manatoba said no unless we put in a filtering system, which is understandable. Richard Betting and the People to Save the Sheyene still haven't figured out they are history fi it flows out on its own. But then again they know The Feds will never allow a natural flow in the Tolna Coulee.Armor the coulee, but to what elevation. Maybe that is why the Roads are being built up to an elevation of 1475 and the natural out flow is 1458. Um!!!!!!  But now with the two proposed outlets going full steam it is supposed to take off one foot of water a year. Lets see close to three feet is expected this year alone. Oh weel Ive got get outside and fill some more sandbags. Maybe Mr. Betting would like to come up and help some of us.
Absouletly concurr!!!

 

Good Luck and Good Fishin'

Eric T


Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 10:59 AM | Reply #15 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/27/2002
Location: ND
 What if we..........
1.  Build a pipeline to the sheyenne river from east devils lake and regulate how much we pump into it to slow the rise of the big lake so it only comes up half as fast as it is right now?
Price Tag....100's of millions of dollars

2.  How about build a pipeline to the Bakken and they can use Devils Lake water in their microfracture drilling process?
Price Tag...... 100's of millions of dollars.
 
3.  How about we build a pipeline from devils lake to the southwestern states and pump some water down their where they need it pretty bad?
Price Tag...... Billions

4.  How about we finish the Mcclusky canal and ship some water to the missouri through what was the garrison diversion?

Pricetag...... Millions.

5.  How about we build a really big pipeline and pump water over to the middle east in exchange for oil?

Price tag..... Zillions.

OR-

How about we hire a construction company to dredge out the tolna coulee and do what should have been done 5 years ago?  I am quite positive that there are a few companies that would do it for just the price of fuel and labor.
Price Tag.........Thousands of dollars, I would bet if you passed the hat, you would raise that much just in the lake region.

AHHH, frustration is getting to me and just about everyone else up here, as I just got done sucking up another 40 gallons of water from my basement from seepage.
At least I can remain somewhat humorous about it huh?


 
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 11:00 AM | Reply #16 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/27/2002
Location: ND
 I have a couple other comments to make about this at this time, however, I need to do an Environmental Impact Study to make sure I don't offend the 3 or 4 member of the People to Save the Sheyenne.  I will get back to you in 5 to 10 years.
 
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 11:34 AM | Reply #17 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 11/06/2002
Location: ND
40's or bust, I understand the frustration of the landowners it is the same for others during fall hunting as well when roads and field accesses get blocked by vehicles, torn up when conditions are wet. This is not a DL issue alone, but when conditions as they are in that region reach the levels it has tolerance levels drop quickly.

Friend fished this past weekend up there, talked with two landowners to gain permission to fish from private property. He was allowed because he explained that otherwise he would be forced to park along the road and fish the ditch area. Both when approached became very reasonable and appreciated his concern for not blocking or tearing up the road. He had his 4 wheeler along and had great success.

He is from that area and his family lost their land years ago so he gets it, but as he has said, how do you tell someone not to drive down an improved road or a section line when state law allows it.

Solutions to this issue are not easy, water off one place puts it on another which can create issues as well. Downstream interests have a valid concern especially when control structures like Baldhill Dam if lost affect people all the way south to Lisbon and back north up to Grand Forks and beyond!

Same for what we are looking at in Fargo as well. We all need to look at what happened in MO with the Corp blowing levees and think about that possibility as well thus not an easy issue. Coulda woulda and shoulda are wasted thoughts now. What should be the focus is what can be done and how fast and the best option!
In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 11:40 AM | Reply #18 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/23/2002
Location: ND
I know that everybody has all the answers now.  I'm sorry to tell you that the world does not work that way.  NOBODY thought the lake would ever get this high.  Every time they raised roads and dikes, it was thought that this was the last time.

When it comes to draining, the Law is pretty clear on how things work.  You follow the proper procedure or really bad things happen.  The State played by the rules because there was no alternative.  There is an international Boundary Waters Treaty that the Federal Government would not allow us to break.  It's pretty darn easy to talk big on here but I don't know too many people willing to back up their words if it means sitting in a Federal Prison and being personally responsible for all damages.

Don't get me wrong.  I feel for the people who have been devastated by this.  The owner of the campground where I rent a lot is losing 65 lots this year at $1,100 a pop.  That's pretty serious cash that I'm quite certain he was counting on.  The farms lost is an incredible hardship to comprehend.

To put things in perspective, the COE just blew up a dike down south and flooded 150,000 acres of farmland to make sure a town didn't get flooded. 
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 11:53 AM | Reply #19 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 02/27/2002
Location: ND
 Is that the EXACT SAME INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY TREATY that the canadian farmers don't follow in the spring flooding out farmers near pembina and neche.

Farnorth,
I don't expect you to know how many of us feel up here.  And unless you have lived and lost(or are losing) because of the flooding of the devils lake, I really think that you should bite your tongue instead of giving someone who has had to live through it a tongue lashing.
The COE is broken, has been for quite some time.  Goes back to when I was in college in Valley City and miscalculations by the ALMIGHTY COE caused widespread flooding and we as students had to sandbag for people such as the Dishonorable Dick Bedding.
I say what I say with a slice of humor, but the humor is running out real fast.
Solutions and Actions are what is needed right now, not Excuses and onesided treaties.
And you talk about the LAW and DRAINING, how about RETAINING.  What does the law say about illegally prohibiting the the draining action of a natural outlet that was forced into action by mother nature 2 other times in the last 5000 years.

Two things I will leave you with.....

"Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it."

And-

"Never argue with an Idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you on experience"  

 
Re: A different Devils Lake perspective
by on 05/10/2011 11:59 AM | Reply #20 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |

Joined: 05/23/2002
Location: ND
cootkiller 1 Said:
 Is that the EXACT SAME INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY TREATY that the canadian farmers don't follow in the spring flooding out farmers near pembina and neche.

Farnorth,
I don't expect you to know how many of us feel up here.  And unless you have lived and lost(or are losing) because of the flooding of the devils lake, I really think that you should bite your tongue instead of giving someone who has had to live through it a tongue lashing.
The COE is broken, has been for quite some time.  Goes back to when I was in college in Valley City and miscalculations by the ALMIGHTY COE caused widespread flooding and we as students had to sandbag for people such as the Dishonorable Dick Bedding.
I say what I say with a slice of humor, but the humor is running out real fast.
Solutions and Actions are what is needed right now, not Excuses and onesided treaties.
And you talk about the LAW and DRAINING, how about RETAINING.  What does the law say about illegally prohibiting the the draining action of a natural outlet that was forced into action by mother nature 2 other times in the last 5000 years.

Two things I will leave you with.....

"Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it."

And-

"Never argue with an Idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you on experience"  


I grew up in the Lake Region dumas.  I know all about what is going on there.  I have direct experience with what happens every year in Pembina County.

I know you are frustrated.  If you want action, get your shovel out or hire a backhoe and dig out the Tolna Coulee yourself.  I'll send cookies and cake to your jail cell.

If you don't take the action yourself, then stop criticizing the people in charge for not doing what you are afraid to do.  I'm guessing they are doing their best.
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Posted On: 05/10/2011 08:06 AM
3590 Views, 54 Comments

Tags: lake, devils, perspective, different, going, basin, everything, understand, rights, rdquo
More Tags: Devils lake, Jamestown, Fargo, Natural Disaster, Federal Emergency Management Agency, sportsman, President,
Region: North Dakota

Categories: Outdoor Sports
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