300 Win Mag or 300 Ultra Mag??

45 posts / 0 new
Last post
wolfden
Offline
Joined: Monday, September 4, 2006 - 9:31pm
300 Win Mag or 300 Ultra Mag??

I am looking for a Elk gun and have been told by several people that I should look to the 300 Mag for Elk in Oregon.
What exactly is the difference between the 300 Win Mag and the 300 Ultra Mag??
Any input would be greatly appreciated

Maximus MinnowR...
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:12pm

I assume that the people that advocate the

robertb
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 12:16pm

worlfden-

If your in the Fargo area email me at robertb@facnd.com if your interested in trying out the .300 Rem. Ultra Mag.

cynical's picture
cynical
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:00am

I think I'd get a good muzzle break installed if I were to shoot a 300 mag. It amazes me people are so facinated with an extra 200-300fps, it's almost like 2800 fps cant kill anything

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

Jiffy's picture
Jiffy
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 8, 2002 - 12:00am

wolfden, if I remember correctly the 300 Ultra is a 409 Jefferys necked down to a 30. I own a 300 Win. Mag. but I do not own a 300 Ultra. IMO there is really no need to own a 300 Ultra other than it would just be a reason to have another gun. We all know one more gun is always good. ;)!!! I have shot a 300 Ultra and all I can say is put a muzzle break on it!! The one I fired kicked like a freaking mule without one. I would go with the 300 Win. Mag. Its plenty of rifle for elk and your shoulder will be happy you did!!

bobkat's picture
bobkat
Offline
Joined: Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 12:00am

The .300 ultra is a fine cartridge but too much for most people to shoot well. Like so many of the souped up .30 crowd.
The rest of the .300's are so close that theoretical advantages aside, flip a coin, then ignore the flip and get the one in whatever rifle fits best for you.
As 3X says, use whatever you can shoot accurately - an extra 2-3 hundred FPS won't make any difference at whatever ranges you can hit an elk anyway. At the end of the day it's hard to beat the 100 year old 06!
And practise, practise, practise - whatever you choose.

Waylon
Offline
Joined: Friday, September 29, 2006 - 10:19am

I would consider the 300 Win Short Mag, you can get nearly the same performance without the recoil. This caliber shoots flat with the power to take down an elk at long range.

cynical's picture
cynical
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:00am

as bobkat mentions--hard to beat the old reliable .30-06 especially since good used guns can be found at a reasonable price. With a good quality bullet penetration shouldnt be a problem at reasonable ranges.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

Auggie1415's picture
Auggie1415
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 6:26pm

I shot a 300 Ultra a few years ago. It kicks, but not as bad as I thought. It has an awesome tragectory. I have had a thing for the 30-378 Weatherby in a Sako TRG-S. I found on the other day. My shoulder might go on strike after a few rounds, but I'll reason with it. Plus I want to hear an elk scream from 500 yards away.

Hail the Bison!
Go Pack Go!

Jiffy's picture
Jiffy
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 8, 2002 - 12:00am

Auggie1415, aren't you a female?? If so...will you marry me?!?! If not PLEASE disreguard my offer. lol!! ;)!! The TRG is an awesome weapon. I didn't know that they offered it in a 30-378....Hey check this out!! http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek069.html

jokostel's picture
jokostel
Offline
Joined: Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:33pm

been think on gettin a scendero in 300 ultra or just to bite the bullet and get a Ruger #1 in 300 win mag... im still ready with 300 win mag brass/ammo/dies,ect from the last one i had... got rid of it because it was light and had a crappy stock.

I'm the devil's son..... call me young gun.

G Man's picture
G Man
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 12:00am

I have a Ruger .330 Win Mag and my cousin shoots a Remington .300 Ultra. My Win Mag kicks worse than his Ultra.

The ballistics on the Ultra are outstanding. If I buy another rifle, it will be an Ultra. The ammo is more expensive but is worth it in my mind. I would go with the Ultra, no questions about it.

 

300umag's picture
300umag
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 12:00am

wolfden

I shoot a Remington 300 Ultra Mag and would not give it up for anything. I am a small framed guy and put a muzzle break on mine because of the recoil and also bought an after market thumb hole stock. I reload my bullets with Nosler 200 grain accubonds and the gun handles very nicely. I would not be afraid to let any 16 year old shoot mine. Before I did a little work with mine, it did kick. I have shot prairie dogs, antelope, deer, red stag and elk with mine. I have shot other loads through mine and mine really likes the 200 grain. It is a bit much for small game, but I shot an antelope buck last year at 310 yds with the accubonds and hit it right through both shoulders and did no major meat damage. The trick is the bonded core bullets don't seem to rip up light skinned animals too bad. My father also shoots one and he has taken his to Africa and killed everything from a impala to a giraffe and his guide was impressed with the power - he too shoots the 200 grain bullets. Shoot me an email if you decide to buy one and I can start you off with a few load numbers. smeschke@ndsupernet.com

thedoubletripper
Offline
Joined: Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 10:08am

Like stated before the old .06 is hard to beat. If you have your heart set on a mag I would give the nod to the 300 Win. The balistics between the WM, UM, and the WSM just aren't enough to justify the price. Infact, according to Remmingtons charts the UM is .75 inch higher @ 100yrds, WSM is .02 inch @100. Is it really worth paying eight dollars more a box for a rifle that shooter error is greater than the ballistic difference????

G Man's picture
G Man
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 12:00am

Sorry, I meant I have a .300, not a .330.

I do believe paying $8 more a box is worth it on this, when you look at the velocity and energy that the Ultra carries, it is quite a difference.

I pay about $40 per box for the Win Mag shells and I think the good Ultra's are in the lower to mid $50's for a box of 20.

 

Sotaman's picture
Sotaman
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, May 6, 2003 - 12:00am

Jiffy if you would have made it to the FBO the first time this summer you would have meet auggie.

I Would Rather Be ______ing
Trent (Sotaman) Thomas
Lycanthrope's picture
Lycanthrope
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, February 3, 2004 - 12:00am

Id defintely take a 300 Mag over the others. If you want lighter recoil you can buy 'managed recoil' loads or if you reload you can spice it up a bit. You get a lot more variety in factory loads and its a step up from the 30-06/308 crowd without the pain of the bigger/more expensive rounds.

RigJig
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:00am

One great thing about the .300 Win Mag is that it is, despite of its short neck and belted case a very accurate cartridge,, many long range sniper rifles have been built around this caliber,, and with manageable recoil at that,,Recoil and flinching have been well covered in previous posts,, many outfitters dont want clients with muzzle breaks on their rifles,, they are devastatingly hard on the ears when anywhere near one,,The good ol .300 Winny is very hard to beat,,,,,

ranger3
Offline
Joined: Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 9:36pm

I had a 300 Win Mag for many years and wish I had kept it. The ammo is reasonable in price with a good selection, they are inherently accurate and very manageable recoil. I shot my moose at 400 yds and a larger calibur would not have made any difference. It would be my pick if I had to get another 30 calibur.

ranger3
Offline
Joined: Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 9:36pm

I had a 300 Win Mag for many years and wish I had kept it. The ammo is reasonable in price with a good selection, they are inherently accurate and very manageable recoil. I shot my moose at 400 yds and a larger calibur would not have made any difference. It would be my pick if I had to get another 30 calibur.

Tim Sandstrom's picture
Tim Sandstrom
Offline
Joined: Monday, July 14, 2003 - 12:00am

So where does the 7mm fit into all of this discussion?  Oh and the 30-378 is a beast.  My uncle has one but I haven't shot it yet just heard stories!  Hope to give her  a whirl sometime this fall.

Tim S.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
Travis Carlson
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, October 2, 2002 - 12:00am

if your interested in a 7mm ultra give a call. great elk rifle. 701-739-9260

bluegills24/7's picture
bluegills24/7
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:00am

LOL I would say that the 7mm isn't in this discussion. After all he is just comparing the 300 WM and the 300 UM. ALthough, the 30-378 is a cannon. If I was going to do it over I would still stick with my 300 Wby Mag. Sorry, just had to toss one more into the mix. Hope no one minds. BTW Tim when you going to take that STW off of bubbas hands???

I have a fever...and the only prescription...is more walleyes!!

cynical's picture
cynical
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:00am

here is the link for the ballistics on Remington's site
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ball...

same old argument about how great an extra 290fps is at the muzzle-- I'm sure recipes for handloads are available
to move the 300 win mag up to or past factory 300 ultra mag

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

Tim Sandstrom's picture
Tim Sandstrom
Offline
Joined: Monday, July 14, 2003 - 12:00am

Bluegills,

I don't know.  Many other things to write checks out for.  You know, I'm not the rich farmer like you ;-)

If you yahoos would stay out of the bar I could take a look at the gun and shoot it a bit.  But no, drink all night and sleep all day.  By the way, it was a good goose hunt.  Should have been there.

Tim S.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
elkhunter's picture
elkhunter
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, June 4, 2002 - 12:00am

Check out the recoil table below.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
You'll see that the .300 Ultra has quite abit more recoil than the .300 Win Mag.

bobkat's picture
bobkat
Offline
Joined: Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 12:00am

Using Nosler's ballistic tables for their 200 grain .308 bullet and comparing the 300 Win to the 30 - 378 (they don't have the ultra data so used the 30-378 which arguably is even flatter than the Ultra) Let's critically look at the numbers!!
With a 200 yard zero, at 400 yards the Win will drop -20.6 and the 30-378 drops -17.6 with energies of 2439 and 2520 respectively.
Anyone who can tell or aim with a difference of less than 4 inches drop in mind at 400 yards must be a heck of a better shot than me! And any elk that can tell the difference if hit anywhere (either a good or poor hit) between 2439 and 2520 fps must be some new species of superelk!
In my opinion, absolutely NO significant differences between them, especially when 90% of elk and moose are shot at well under 200 yards!
And now, for the rest of the story!!
Compare both those supermags with the "old outdated" 06 sighted in at the same 200 yards with the same 200 grain bullet and the numbers are -22.3 in drop and 2259 foot pounds at 400 yards. Again, for ALL practical purposes, no significant differences!
As you can see, with any of these rifles you can "hold on hair" well past 400 yards, and in my opinion most shooters have NO excuse shooting that far anyway!
I'm glad I'm not a bull elk, but if I were, and were standing 400 yards from the average shooter, I would by far prefer them to be shooting the 30-378, 300 ultra, or even the 300 Win, rather than the "old outdated ought six" as the odds would be MUCH MUCH higher that they would flinch and miss me with the bigger cannons! Then I could go back to chasing my harem of cows! LOL

Jiffy's picture
Jiffy
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 8, 2002 - 12:00am

Actually bobkat 1MOA up or down is kind of a big deal. Now when you put that into the perspective of hunting elk, it really doesn

RigJig
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:00am

Bobkat,,

Good advice,, My observations in the field shooting practices are that many who shoot super magnums tend to pull their shots high,, maybe that is a degree of flinching,, they shoot ok left to right but most of the time high,, couple that with a 2/12 inch sight in a 100 yards and they shoot over most game,, I have a 7STW and it is a great shooter but for the extra grains of powder compared to my pet 7Rem Mag loads gives me little to holler about except at the shoulder,, I got rid of an 8mmMag for elf and my .338, great rifles but I feel more comfortable with my .300 Win for elk,, for deer hunting my 7 mags are just the ticket,, why,, because they dont kick much with a good pad, But buck the North Dalota wind as good as any,, and in almost all cases it is a bang flop affair,,and that is the frosting on the cake,, I have taken many deer with the standard cartridges,, .308,, 06,, .270,280 and they all work fine,, but we all have our favorites,, and for me the 7 mag,168 gr Bergers, a stiff load of H1000,, Fed 215M primers and you can shoot very well out past 400 yards with no worries,,

cynical's picture
cynical
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:00am

Wwith the ultra high velocity facination one would think the .220 swift would be twice as good as the .22-250
I swear to god some people dont believe 2000fps or even 3000fps can kill an animal. Maybe averyone should trade their .22-250s for the new .223 wssm

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

bobkat's picture
bobkat
Offline
Joined: Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 12:00am

That's spooky! When I said "most shooters" shouldn't shoot at 400 yards anyway, I was thinking of you three guys who replied, plus Horsager and maybe one or two others, as examples of exceptions - guys who can probably take advantage of a slightly flatter cartridge and be able to still shoot it accurately! LOL
I use a .300 Win for elk, too, although lately I've toned it down to a bit lighter of a bullet (165 gr. Barnes and Interbonds) and backed off a bit on the loads so I can shoot it better in the field. Probably more like a souped up 06 than a .300!
Guess I'm gettin old and a bit more wimpy! - as hairy chested as I used to be but now the hair's turning white!
But as they say, better to be over the hill than under it! LOL

Sportsman's picture
Sportsman
Offline
Joined: Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:00am

I think that all the hype over the super-magnums is just that - hype. I don't think that an inch or 2 more drop or a few hundred fps velocity makes any real difference to 99 percent of the guys out there. To someone like Jiffy, who is capable of taking 400 yard plus shots, it might. For the rest of us, it isn't going to matter. I think we tend to get caught up in what-ever is new and better sometimes. If it is new and better, we just have to have it. I know several people who went out and bought the ultra mag for just that reason. I also know that I will out shoot any one of them with my 300 mag. I do not own any fancy or "odd" calibers. If you are into that kind of thing - great. But does anyone really "need" them - NO. Same thing with optics. I know lots of guys that paid more for one scope than all of mine combined. That would be OK if you are a serious shooter or knew how to use that scope to its full potential. Most people who buy them do not.

I don't own any specialty caliber guns. I don't have any $1,000 scopes. I don't spend a fortune on handloading to get the hottest bullet imaginable, and I don't buy the most expensive shells in the store. I do however take my fair share of game and will put my shooting skills up against most others (not you Jiffy. Don't get exited). I think there is a huge gap between what is needed and what is out there. That is my opinion.

Now to the topic of elk cartriges. When I went to Colorado hunting, many of the locals laughed at our "cannons". We were all packing 300's, 300 ultra mags, and even a couple 338's. Most of the locals are comfortable with the 30-06 as an elk rifle and 270's are not uncommon. I think the trend these days is about over-kill. Heck, if we are all looking for the fastest, hardest hitting, longest range gun we can get ahold of, why not consider the 50 cal? 1/2 mile shots - no problem.

.

jokostel's picture
jokostel
Offline
Joined: Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:33pm

well im down to 2 rifles...aaaaagin.

the Browning White Gold Medallion or the Ruger #1 stainless
chamberings are both in 300 win mag...

im leaning twoards the browning, as everything else i have is a ruger thus far...
it would be nice to test the waters...

what do ya think? bolt or falling block.... for this round... i dont plan on doing anything else but badlands class hunting with it.

I'm the devil's son..... call me young gun.

TakItEz's picture
TakItEz
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 4:56pm

jokostel
Why not buy a 300 barrel for your Encore??

jokostel's picture
jokostel
Offline
Joined: Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:33pm

thought about it.... but id rather get a 45/70 barrel or a 375 H&H barrel... and get a higher end 300 winchester...

I'm the devil's son..... call me young gun.

Horsager's picture
Horsager
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 12:00am

Bobkat has this right on. Look at drop at a given distance (make sure the zero-in distance is the same for both cartriges), not muzzle velocity, not even muzzle energy. There is a pretty good free online ballistics calculator at biggameinfo.com. Most common calibers are so close that aruguing which is better is just silly. For you guys shooting 300 Ultra's with 200gn bullets, I wholeheartedly agree with that choice. Big cases are meant to shoot big bullets fast. If any of you have chronoed them I'd be interrested in what you're getting for veolocity. For comparison's sake I get 3020FPS from a 26" Stainless Winchester W/200gn TSX's. That load gives my 8# rifle plenty of snap, more than most will shoot well off of bags, or a good rest. That rifle gives many a case of the "flinchies".

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



swift's picture
swift
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 12:00am

When I was in the market for an elk only rifle last year I settled on a 340 weatherby mag. I realized I wouldn't be shooting it every year and at the range much. The 250 grain Nosler partition did a good job on the 7x7 it slammed into. I already own 7mm mags and 30 calibers so I went for bigger just in case I get to go for big bear or dangerous game some year. With that said today I would still by a 34 caliber rifle for my elk only gun, but likely a 338 win mag.

Horsager's picture
Horsager
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 12:00am

The 340 is a .33 caliber rifle, as is the 338. The 340 WBY is BRUTAL! I sighted one in for a guy going Musk Ox hunting, and that rifle falls in the "No Fun" catagory where recoil is concerned.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



swift's picture
swift
Offline
Joined: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 12:00am

Once again Horsager you are correct. I guess I started too early this morning.

Auggie1415's picture
Auggie1415
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 6:26pm

Jiffy,
In now way have I ever been or ever will be a woman. I'm not into guys... Its not my thing. I don't know whether to riducle you or be a fraid of your offer. Anyways, the 30-378 in a Sako TRG was discontinued a few years ago. I found a used on the other day. I might have to pick up some new reloading dies and brass in the next few weeks.

Hail the Bison!
Go Pack Go!

Jiffy's picture
Jiffy
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 8, 2002 - 12:00am

Sorry about that...I thought you were of the female type. I'm not sure why I had that in my head but I did for some reason. My bad.....however, do you have a sister?? lol!! just kidding. ;)!!

300 ultra mag
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 10:55pm

i would go with the 300 ultra


webs's picture
webs
Offline
Joined: Saturday, December 1, 2007 - 8:41pm

 You're only 7 years to late. 

Jake G's picture
Jake G
Offline
Joined: Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 1:51am

whats all this .30 cal hogwash talk! Everybody knows you can kill anything with a .223!!

Are the good times really over for good?

I'm gonna guarantee that buck a ride in the puckup truck!

BringingTheRain's picture
BringingTheRain
Offline
Joined: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - 5:31pm

Jake G Said:
whats all this .30 cal hogwash talk! Everybody knows you can kill anything with a .223!!

 They've killed wolves, caribou, black bears, and a grizz with an ar 223 on Yukon Men.